[TangerineSDR] TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5---re: N1HAC temp test
David G. McGaw
david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu
Tue Aug 4 01:19:34 EDT 2020
No, not Rz, just Z from runMag. Started the temperature high above 85C,
ended at 27C.
The space between T and Z has been suppressed in your copy below. The
first line is 27C, 50.9uT, the last line is 85C, 48.6uT.
David N1HAC
On 8/3/20 11:34 PM, Julius Madey via TangerineSDR wrote:
> Dave, is 'raw data' the rz column from the latest runMag? I assume
> you started the test at 85C and ended around perhaps 25C or close to
> that ??????
> For Z axis on one of my two RM3100's I'm seeing around -10nT/degreeC
> Thanks,
> Jules K2KGJ
>
>
> On 8/3/2020 10:51 PM, tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org wrote:
>> Send TangerineSDR mailing list submissions to
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>>
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Notes from PSWS / TangerineSDR call of 08-02-2020 (Tom McDermott)
>> 2. Re: Mag update? (David G. McGaw)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 19:12:11 -0700
>> From: Tom McDermott<tom.n5eg at gmail.com>
>> To: TAPR TangerineSDR Modular Software Defined Radio
>> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>> Subject: [TangerineSDR] Notes from PSWS / TangerineSDR call of
>> 08-02-2020
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACO3nRRbYte9MYE4UQBsej7puLR-qQtSddFH9j8D6wY1Zoku+g at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Notes from PSWS / TangerineSDR call of 08-02-2020
>>
>> 1. Still an open question about correlation of the Tangerine magnetometer
>> data with the instruments at Jenny Jump. Other measurements seem like the
>> Tangerine unit is basically working, so there are plans to re-try the
>> measurements at Jenny Jump but at a location closer to the existing science
>> grade fluxgate magnetometer. Given the very few working copies of Dave's
>> hand-built units, it's difficult to separate a possible problem with one
>> unit from a general problem. We agreed to make 10 prototype sets (20
>> extender boards + 10 PNI boards) using Scotty's artwork so we can have more
>> units in order to verify proper operation.
>>
>> -- Tom, N5EG
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 22:50:25 -0400
>> From: "David G. McGaw"<david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu>
>> To:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
>> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Mag update?
>> Message-ID:<8aadd47f-fc94-e011-fec3-dfb049fe2b41 at dartmouth.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> I did a quick and rough test of the magnetometer change vs temperature.?
>> Here is my raw data.? I was measuring the Z-axis which here in NH is
>> about 50 uT while changing the temperature, as measured by the T
>> sensor.? I heated the unit up above 85C and then put it under a
>> cardboard cover to slow down the cooling and equilibrate the
>> temperature.? Here is my raw data:
>>
>> T??????? Z-axis
>>
>> 2750.9 uT
>>
>> 3050.85
>>
>> 3550.77
>>
>> 4050.7
>>
>> 4550.7
>>
>> 5050.5
>>
>> 5550.4
>>
>> 6050.1
>>
>> 6549.9
>>
>> 7049.6
>>
>> 7549.2
>>
>> 8548.6
>>
>>
>> Noise was about .10 uT peak-peak.
>>
>>
>> David N1HAC
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/3/20 12:15 PM, Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D. via TangerineSDR wrote:
>>> This all sounds very good. I?m eager to see the results.
>>>
>>> 73 de Nathaniel W2NAF
>>>
>>> *From:* TangerineSDR<tangerinesdr-bounces at lists.tapr.org> *On Behalf
>>> Of *Julius Madey via TangerineSDR
>>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 11:57 AM
>>> *To:* Kim, Hyomin<hmkim at njit.edu>; TAPR TangerineSDR Modular Software
>>> Defined Radio<tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>>> *Cc:* Julius Madey<hillfox at fairpoint.net>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [TangerineSDR] TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 16, Issue
>>> 32_RM3100temperature effects
>>>
>>> Great ! Out of direct sunlight and close to ground level would be best.
>>>
>>> On 8/3/2020 11:28 AM, Kim, Hyomin wrote:
>>>
>>> This time, I will try to place the sensor as close as possible to
>>> the science magnetometer at Jenny Jump and insulate it to minimize
>>> the temperature effect if any.
>>>
>>> Gil (the site manager) and I will not be available until next week
>>> but will try to address this issue as soon as possible.
>>>
>>> Hyomin
>>>
>>>
>>> NJIT logo
>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789745357&sdata=ucpyw%2FCCoLnq8YpSxPDMvU6K9r7Kgz7CaZbXeNqFNk0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Hyomin Kim*
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Physics
>>> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
>>> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
>>> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>???(973)?596-5704
>>> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789745357&sdata=BHNGmalVicIaozYaLs8qrpyLbAZVxSgPteuU4DFCMP4%3D&reserved=0>
>>> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>>>
>>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 1:49 PM Julius Madey via TangerineSDR
>>> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> That is the claim.? So either that's not the case, or perhaps
>>> it holds for levels in excess of a few hundred nT or something
>>> else is causing the variations that were observed at Jenny
>>> Jump and in my various tests.? It is probably not B fields
>>> very local to the adapter board, which sees currents in the
>>> 10mA range.? Just did some tests with 100mA into a twisted
>>> pair of #31 magnet wire held near different parts of the
>>> RM3100 board.
>>>
>>> If the twisted pair was 0.5cm or more away from anything on
>>> the board, no effect observed.? If it lay directly on one of
>>> the sensing inductors, effect was ~ 50nT.
>>>
>>> Another thought on temperature stability .... place the mag in
>>> an in-ground vault.? Back in the 60's when we needed xtal
>>> oscillator stability on the cheap and better than the usual
>>> xtal oven of the day, we put the oscillator assembly about 3
>>> feet underground.? Very stable short term and excellent long
>>> term.? It would certainly work for 24 hour observation periods.
>>>
>>> Jules Madey-K2KGJ
>>>
>>> On 7/31/2020 1:38 PM,tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org
>>> <mailto:tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Send TangerineSDR mailing list submissions to
>>>
>>> tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>>>
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>
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>>>
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>>
>>> than "Re: Contents of TangerineSDR digest..."
>>>
>>> Today's Topics:
>>>
>>> ?? 1. Re: Mag update? (David G. McGaw)
>>>
>>> ?? 2. Re: Mag update? (David G. McGaw)
>>>
>>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 1
>>>
>>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:36:38 -0400
>>>
>>> From: "David G. McGaw"<david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu>
>>>
>>> To:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Mag update?
>>>
>>> Message-ID:<3718db2a-97b4-eba5-8f0a-e94ead711cd7 at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:3718db2a-97b4-eba5-8f0a-e94ead711cd7 at dartmouth.edu>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>>
>>> Interesting, this, as it says on the RM3100 webpage "Measurements are
>>>
>>> stable over temperature and inherently free of offset drift" and a
>>>
>>> temperature coefficient is not even mentioned in the specs.
>>>
>>> David N1HAC
>>>
>>> On 7/31/20 11:18 AM, Julius Madey via TangerineSDR wrote:
>>>
>>> Good morning all.? Betty Zhang at PNI is responding to the request and
>>>
>>> has asked for more information which I have supplied, including some
>>>
>>> of the JJ test comparisons, how I ran the calibration runs I did, data
>>>
>>> reduction, etc.
>>>
>>> I would suggest one further item for consideration in getting to a
>>>
>>> useable solution.? If RM3100 temperature turns out to be a concern,
>>>
>>> place the sensor in a small foam insulated box with a proportionally
>>>
>>> controlled heater which maintains the temperature at something just
>>>
>>> above what would be considered the highest environmental temperature
>>>
>>> around the sensor.? That should be relatively simple to do without
>>>
>>> introducing an interfering magnetic field local to the sensor.? Some
>>>
>>> power would be required but with careful design, I would think well
>>>
>>> within 1 watt.
>>>
>>> Another possibility would be using peltier effect heat pumps to do the
>>>
>>> same thing, although the technology would probably result is stronger
>>>
>>> local B fields from the peltier device and require more power.? The
>>>
>>> insulated foam box and proportional heater is also probably the
>>>
>>> cheapest approach considering the need to keep overall costs for the
>>>
>>> expected users low.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Jules
>>>
>>> On 7/31/2020 10:26 AM, David Witten wrote:
>>>
>>> Hyomin,
>>>
>>> I'm not certain what the next step should be.? Julius is hoping for
>>>
>>> further response from PNI on this subject.
>>>
>>> If temperature compensation does account for the differences in
>>>
>>> observed response I would think that the important thing to? do may
>>>
>>> be to find a way to calibrate out the discrepancy.? Then we can look
>>>
>>> at insulation to further minimize the effect.
>>>
>>> Calibration will hopefully give us more meaningful values to begin?with.
>>>
>>> Insulation will dampen the effect of those behaviors over short
>>>
>>> timespans.
>>>
>>> Fortunately, neither requires changes?in the basic circuit, just
>>>
>>> adjustments to the data collection and device packaging.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>
>>>
>>> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ??? Hi Dave
>>>
>>> ??? Sorry that I've been out of the loop for a while as I was
>>>
>>> ??? completely caught up with something else. May I ask you what the
>>>
>>> ??? current status is?
>>>
>>> ??? I can visit Jenny Jump if there is something that I can do. At
>>>
>>> ??? this moment, I cannot think of anything that can be fixed from my
>>>
>>> ??? end.
>>>
>>> ??? If the temperature compensation is the issue, I could install
>>>
>>> ??? insulations around the sensor.
>>>
>>> ??? Hyomin
>>>
>>> ??? NJIT logo
>>>
>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C2e59f624469544810c1c08d8356521e1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318055785489421&sdata=TmqWJw6VYdRSrTgS2xSIifG4OTUj6z5lcBLqd2UedyY%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789755315&sdata=NPkBosTmBhBS2wYv0poh6V16oCwYx%2F1o5Znw4QtGFLA%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> ??? ? *Hyomin Kim*
>>>
>>> ??? Assistant Professor
>>>
>>> ??? Physics
>>>
>>> ??? Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
>>>
>>> ??? Institute for Space Weather Sciences
>>>
>>> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>?? (973)?596-5704
>>>
>>> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/ <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789765273&sdata=2VoO3Q96MjJxabOXnnX2z6K3Py7eG4UB0hJXFSlrl7Y%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C2e59f624469544810c1c08d8356521e1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318055785499423&sdata=Nz%2B0y9A0svN6RegTKpvfpWgJ%2FCb1N1vKkFr71fqtDFg%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789765273&sdata=2VoO3Q96MjJxabOXnnX2z6K3Py7eG4UB0hJXFSlrl7Y%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> ??? 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>>>
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>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>>
>>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:37:51 -0400
>>>
>>> From: "David G. McGaw"<david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu>
>>>
>>> To:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Mag update?
>>>
>>> Message-ID:<f86f2596-ef2b-25c7-5b12-3f83c4429cb3 at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:f86f2596-ef2b-25c7-5b12-3f83c4429cb3 at dartmouth.edu>
>>>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>>
>>> Interesting, this, as it says on the RM3100 webpage "Measurements are
>>>
>>> stable over temperature and inherently free of offset drift" and a
>>>
>>> temperature coefficient is not even mentioned in the specs.
>>>
>>> David N1HAC
>>>
>>> On 7/31/20 11:44 AM, Julius Madey via TangerineSDR wrote:
>>>
>>> One more thought.? I've asked PNI for information both on temperature
>>>
>>> and supply voltage sensitivity, the only two variables I could think
>>>
>>> of besides the need to minimize local B fields due to currents in
>>>
>>> circuit board traces, nearby wiring, etc.
>>>
>>> I did not find data on the temperature stability of the 3.3 volt
>>>
>>> regulator Dave's JJ board? is using but the regulator I used with the
>>>
>>> original adapter board Dave sent me has about 5 millivolts of change
>>>
>>> out of 3.3 volts between 25 and 50 C and Dave's is probably similar.?
>>>
>>> That doesn't seem like enough change to produce the observed
>>>
>>> variations but that information was given to PNI as well.
>>>
>>> On 7/31/2020 10:26 AM, David Witten wrote:
>>>
>>> Hyomin,
>>>
>>> I'm not certain what the next step should be.? Julius is hoping for
>>>
>>> further response from PNI on this subject.
>>>
>>> If temperature compensation does account for the differences in
>>>
>>> observed response I would think that the important thing to? do may
>>>
>>> be to find a way to calibrate out the discrepancy.? Then we can look
>>>
>>> at insulation to further minimize the effect.
>>>
>>> Calibration will hopefully give us more meaningful values to begin?with.
>>>
>>> Insulation will dampen the effect of those behaviors over short
>>>
>>> timespans.
>>>
>>> Fortunately, neither requires changes?in the basic circuit, just
>>>
>>> adjustments to the data collection and device packaging.
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>
>>>
>>> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ??? Hi Dave
>>>
>>> ??? Sorry that I've been out of the loop for a while as I was
>>>
>>> ??? completely caught up with something else. May I ask you what the
>>>
>>> ??? current status is?
>>>
>>> ??? I can visit Jenny Jump if there is something that I can do. At
>>>
>>> ??? this moment, I cannot think of anything that can be fixed from my
>>>
>>> ??? end.
>>>
>>> ??? If the temperature compensation is the issue, I could install
>>>
>>> ??? insulations around the sensor.
>>>
>>> ??? Hyomin
>>>
>>> ??? NJIT logo
>>>
>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C4a7b93ba3ecd455d4e0f08d83568b144%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318071068004568&sdata=O09d%2FBt6N3Iq%2FUVQ5KdQz6V0Km3YIN%2BucnCkc1JQC8E%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789775223&sdata=H6uOa%2F1m4ad5ZqG5fZC48ZI38v3K86nBZoVrEiBnLZc%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> ??? ? *Hyomin Kim*
>>>
>>> ??? Assistant Professor
>>>
>>> ??? Physics
>>>
>>> ??? Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
>>>
>>> ??? Institute for Space Weather Sciences
>>>
>>> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>?? (973)?596-5704
>>>
>>> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/ <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789775223&sdata=WRwBs7Qy86UEiCfSplyHYSvED0NXNLmAzebDp9b2RwM%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
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>>>
>>> ??? 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>>>
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>>>
>>> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.tapr.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789785179&sdata=oNXGCjmXqTt8085LgVtuO6xeaNEnOmRobb5F2ZiJkro%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>> End of TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 16, Issue 32
>>>
>>> ********************************************
>>>
>>> --
>>> TangerineSDR mailing list
>>> TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org <mailto:TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org>
>>> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.tapr.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789795142&sdata=%2FS94dFL8FzpJa898yaT3nTAT4gm0Km66Pp%2BUwbFFpHQ%3D&reserved=0>
>>>
>>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Subject: Digest Footer
>>
>> TangerineSDR mailing list
>> TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org
>> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5
>> *******************************************
>>
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>
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