[TangerineSDR] TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5---re: N1HAC temp test
Julius Madey
hillfox at fairpoint.net
Mon Aug 3 23:34:37 EDT 2020
Dave, is 'raw data' the rz column from the latest runMag? I assume you
started the test at 85C and ended around perhaps 25C or close to that ??????
For Z axis on one of my two RM3100's I'm seeing around -10nT/degreeC
Thanks,
Jules K2KGJ
On 8/3/2020 10:51 PM, tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org wrote:
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> 1. Notes from PSWS / TangerineSDR call of 08-02-2020 (Tom McDermott)
> 2. Re: Mag update? (David G. McGaw)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 19:12:11 -0700
> From: Tom McDermott <tom.n5eg at gmail.com>
> To: TAPR TangerineSDR Modular Software Defined Radio
> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
> Subject: [TangerineSDR] Notes from PSWS / TangerineSDR call of
> 08-02-2020
> Message-ID:
> <CACO3nRRbYte9MYE4UQBsej7puLR-qQtSddFH9j8D6wY1Zoku+g at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Notes from PSWS / TangerineSDR call of 08-02-2020
>
> 1. Still an open question about correlation of the Tangerine magnetometer
> data with the instruments at Jenny Jump. Other measurements seem like the
> Tangerine unit is basically working, so there are plans to re-try the
> measurements at Jenny Jump but at a location closer to the existing science
> grade fluxgate magnetometer. Given the very few working copies of Dave's
> hand-built units, it's difficult to separate a possible problem with one
> unit from a general problem. We agreed to make 10 prototype sets (20
> extender boards + 10 PNI boards) using Scotty's artwork so we can have more
> units in order to verify proper operation.
>
> -- Tom, N5EG
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> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 22:50:25 -0400
> From: "David G. McGaw" <david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu>
> To: tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Mag update?
> Message-ID: <8aadd47f-fc94-e011-fec3-dfb049fe2b41 at dartmouth.edu>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>
> I did a quick and rough test of the magnetometer change vs temperature.?
> Here is my raw data.? I was measuring the Z-axis which here in NH is
> about 50 uT while changing the temperature, as measured by the T
> sensor.? I heated the unit up above 85C and then put it under a
> cardboard cover to slow down the cooling and equilibrate the
> temperature.? Here is my raw data:
>
> T??????? Z-axis
>
> 2750.9 uT
>
> 3050.85
>
> 3550.77
>
> 4050.7
>
> 4550.7
>
> 5050.5
>
> 5550.4
>
> 6050.1
>
> 6549.9
>
> 7049.6
>
> 7549.2
>
> 8548.6
>
>
> Noise was about .10 uT peak-peak.
>
>
> David N1HAC
>
>
>
> On 8/3/20 12:15 PM, Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D. via TangerineSDR wrote:
>> This all sounds very good. I?m eager to see the results.
>>
>> 73 de Nathaniel W2NAF
>>
>> *From:* TangerineSDR <tangerinesdr-bounces at lists.tapr.org> *On Behalf
>> Of *Julius Madey via TangerineSDR
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 3, 2020 11:57 AM
>> *To:* Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu>; TAPR TangerineSDR Modular Software
>> Defined Radio <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>> *Cc:* Julius Madey <hillfox at fairpoint.net>
>> *Subject:* Re: [TangerineSDR] TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 16, Issue
>> 32_RM3100temperature effects
>>
>> Great ! Out of direct sunlight and close to ground level would be best.
>>
>> On 8/3/2020 11:28 AM, Kim, Hyomin wrote:
>>
>> This time, I will try to place the sensor as close as possible to
>> the science magnetometer at Jenny Jump and insulate it to minimize
>> the temperature effect if any.
>>
>> Gil (the site manager) and I will not be available until next week
>> but will try to address this issue as soon as possible.
>>
>> Hyomin
>>
>>
>> NJIT logo
>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789745357&sdata=ucpyw%2FCCoLnq8YpSxPDMvU6K9r7Kgz7CaZbXeNqFNk0%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Hyomin Kim*
>> Assistant Professor
>> Physics
>> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
>> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
>> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>???(973)?596-5704
>> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789745357&sdata=BHNGmalVicIaozYaLs8qrpyLbAZVxSgPteuU4DFCMP4%3D&reserved=0>
>> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>>
>> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 1:49 PM Julius Madey via TangerineSDR
>> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> That is the claim.? So either that's not the case, or perhaps
>> it holds for levels in excess of a few hundred nT or something
>> else is causing the variations that were observed at Jenny
>> Jump and in my various tests.? It is probably not B fields
>> very local to the adapter board, which sees currents in the
>> 10mA range.? Just did some tests with 100mA into a twisted
>> pair of #31 magnet wire held near different parts of the
>> RM3100 board.
>>
>> If the twisted pair was 0.5cm or more away from anything on
>> the board, no effect observed.? If it lay directly on one of
>> the sensing inductors, effect was ~ 50nT.
>>
>> Another thought on temperature stability .... place the mag in
>> an in-ground vault.? Back in the 60's when we needed xtal
>> oscillator stability on the cheap and better than the usual
>> xtal oven of the day, we put the oscillator assembly about 3
>> feet underground.? Very stable short term and excellent long
>> term.? It would certainly work for 24 hour observation periods.
>>
>> Jules Madey-K2KGJ
>>
>> On 7/31/2020 1:38 PM, tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org
>> <mailto:tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org> wrote:
>>
>> Send TangerineSDR mailing list submissions to
>>
>> tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>>
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>> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.tapr.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789755315&sdata=B3wNdBV%2FREqktEeE0y7y%2FDiYquLZOy5OTAc9LCnruhc%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>
>> tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org>
>>
>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>
>> tangerinesdr-owner at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr-owner at lists.tapr.org>
>>
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>
>> than "Re: Contents of TangerineSDR digest..."
>>
>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> ?? 1. Re: Mag update? (David G. McGaw)
>>
>> ?? 2. Re: Mag update? (David G. McGaw)
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>>
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:36:38 -0400
>>
>> From: "David G. McGaw"<david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu>
>>
>> To:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Mag update?
>>
>> Message-ID:<3718db2a-97b4-eba5-8f0a-e94ead711cd7 at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:3718db2a-97b4-eba5-8f0a-e94ead711cd7 at dartmouth.edu>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Interesting, this, as it says on the RM3100 webpage "Measurements are
>>
>> stable over temperature and inherently free of offset drift" and a
>>
>> temperature coefficient is not even mentioned in the specs.
>>
>> David N1HAC
>>
>> On 7/31/20 11:18 AM, Julius Madey via TangerineSDR wrote:
>>
>> Good morning all.? Betty Zhang at PNI is responding to the request and
>>
>> has asked for more information which I have supplied, including some
>>
>> of the JJ test comparisons, how I ran the calibration runs I did, data
>>
>> reduction, etc.
>>
>> I would suggest one further item for consideration in getting to a
>>
>> useable solution.? If RM3100 temperature turns out to be a concern,
>>
>> place the sensor in a small foam insulated box with a proportionally
>>
>> controlled heater which maintains the temperature at something just
>>
>> above what would be considered the highest environmental temperature
>>
>> around the sensor.? That should be relatively simple to do without
>>
>> introducing an interfering magnetic field local to the sensor.? Some
>>
>> power would be required but with careful design, I would think well
>>
>> within 1 watt.
>>
>> Another possibility would be using peltier effect heat pumps to do the
>>
>> same thing, although the technology would probably result is stronger
>>
>> local B fields from the peltier device and require more power.? The
>>
>> insulated foam box and proportional heater is also probably the
>>
>> cheapest approach considering the need to keep overall costs for the
>>
>> expected users low.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Jules
>>
>> On 7/31/2020 10:26 AM, David Witten wrote:
>>
>> Hyomin,
>>
>> I'm not certain what the next step should be.? Julius is hoping for
>>
>> further response from PNI on this subject.
>>
>> If temperature compensation does account for the differences in
>>
>> observed response I would think that the important thing to? do may
>>
>> be to find a way to calibrate out the discrepancy.? Then we can look
>>
>> at insulation to further minimize the effect.
>>
>> Calibration will hopefully give us more meaningful values to begin?with.
>>
>> Insulation will dampen the effect of those behaviors over short
>>
>> timespans.
>>
>> Fortunately, neither requires changes?in the basic circuit, just
>>
>> adjustments to the data collection and device packaging.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>
>>
>> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> ??? Hi Dave
>>
>> ??? Sorry that I've been out of the loop for a while as I was
>>
>> ??? completely caught up with something else. May I ask you what the
>>
>> ??? current status is?
>>
>> ??? I can visit Jenny Jump if there is something that I can do. At
>>
>> ??? this moment, I cannot think of anything that can be fixed from my
>>
>> ??? end.
>>
>> ??? If the temperature compensation is the issue, I could install
>>
>> ??? insulations around the sensor.
>>
>> ??? Hyomin
>>
>> ??? NJIT logo
>>
>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C2e59f624469544810c1c08d8356521e1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318055785489421&sdata=TmqWJw6VYdRSrTgS2xSIifG4OTUj6z5lcBLqd2UedyY%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789755315&sdata=NPkBosTmBhBS2wYv0poh6V16oCwYx%2F1o5Znw4QtGFLA%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> ??? ? *Hyomin Kim*
>>
>> ??? Assistant Professor
>>
>> ??? Physics
>>
>> ??? Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
>>
>> ??? Institute for Space Weather Sciences
>>
>> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>?? (973)?596-5704
>>
>> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/ <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789765273&sdata=2VoO3Q96MjJxabOXnnX2z6K3Py7eG4UB0hJXFSlrl7Y%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C2e59f624469544810c1c08d8356521e1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318055785499423&sdata=Nz%2B0y9A0svN6RegTKpvfpWgJ%2FCb1N1vKkFr71fqtDFg%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789765273&sdata=2VoO3Q96MjJxabOXnnX2z6K3Py7eG4UB0hJXFSlrl7Y%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> ??? 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>>
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>>
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>>
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:37:51 -0400
>>
>> From: "David G. McGaw"<david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu>
>>
>> To:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Mag update?
>>
>> Message-ID:<f86f2596-ef2b-25c7-5b12-3f83c4429cb3 at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:f86f2596-ef2b-25c7-5b12-3f83c4429cb3 at dartmouth.edu>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Interesting, this, as it says on the RM3100 webpage "Measurements are
>>
>> stable over temperature and inherently free of offset drift" and a
>>
>> temperature coefficient is not even mentioned in the specs.
>>
>> David N1HAC
>>
>> On 7/31/20 11:44 AM, Julius Madey via TangerineSDR wrote:
>>
>> One more thought.? I've asked PNI for information both on temperature
>>
>> and supply voltage sensitivity, the only two variables I could think
>>
>> of besides the need to minimize local B fields due to currents in
>>
>> circuit board traces, nearby wiring, etc.
>>
>> I did not find data on the temperature stability of the 3.3 volt
>>
>> regulator Dave's JJ board? is using but the regulator I used with the
>>
>> original adapter board Dave sent me has about 5 millivolts of change
>>
>> out of 3.3 volts between 25 and 50 C and Dave's is probably similar.?
>>
>> That doesn't seem like enough change to produce the observed
>>
>> variations but that information was given to PNI as well.
>>
>> On 7/31/2020 10:26 AM, David Witten wrote:
>>
>> Hyomin,
>>
>> I'm not certain what the next step should be.? Julius is hoping for
>>
>> further response from PNI on this subject.
>>
>> If temperature compensation does account for the differences in
>>
>> observed response I would think that the important thing to? do may
>>
>> be to find a way to calibrate out the discrepancy.? Then we can look
>>
>> at insulation to further minimize the effect.
>>
>> Calibration will hopefully give us more meaningful values to begin?with.
>>
>> Insulation will dampen the effect of those behaviors over short
>>
>> timespans.
>>
>> Fortunately, neither requires changes?in the basic circuit, just
>>
>> adjustments to the data collection and device packaging.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>
>>
>> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>> wrote:
>>
>> ??? Hi Dave
>>
>> ??? Sorry that I've been out of the loop for a while as I was
>>
>> ??? completely caught up with something else. May I ask you what the
>>
>> ??? current status is?
>>
>> ??? I can visit Jenny Jump if there is something that I can do. At
>>
>> ??? this moment, I cannot think of anything that can be fixed from my
>>
>> ??? end.
>>
>> ??? If the temperature compensation is the issue, I could install
>>
>> ??? insulations around the sensor.
>>
>> ??? Hyomin
>>
>> ??? NJIT logo
>>
>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C4a7b93ba3ecd455d4e0f08d83568b144%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318071068004568&sdata=O09d%2FBt6N3Iq%2FUVQ5KdQz6V0Km3YIN%2BucnCkc1JQC8E%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789775223&sdata=H6uOa%2F1m4ad5ZqG5fZC48ZI38v3K86nBZoVrEiBnLZc%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> ??? ? *Hyomin Kim*
>>
>> ??? Assistant Professor
>>
>> ??? Physics
>>
>> ??? Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
>>
>> ??? Institute for Space Weather Sciences
>>
>> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>?? (973)?596-5704
>>
>> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/ <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789775223&sdata=WRwBs7Qy86UEiCfSplyHYSvED0NXNLmAzebDp9b2RwM%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C4a7b93ba3ecd455d4e0f08d83568b144%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318071068004568&sdata=W4LqWL2HfX4hkY0cMhqWDsY%2FlWS9nz1bpjcEZ9%2FbSNE%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C3b6a91608e414c3e359408d837c88c7e%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637320681789785179&sdata=9O71vnH9udWkE8OCMib3XRhfUsdlaM47x%2Fu3ywzCiwU%3D&reserved=0>
>>
>> ??? 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 16, Issue 32
>>
>> ********************************************
>>
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> End of TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 17, Issue 5
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