[aprssig] [APRS] APRS 1.2 expanded symbol set

Mon Sep 19 20:04:33 EDT 2011

Yes, I may not have said it right.  Trying again:
Under APRS1.2 symbols (adds hundreds of possible overlays on a variety of symbols):

Old software displays:
- old and new / primary symbols same as before
- old and new \ secondary symbol as before
- new overlays on some new blocks will show on old secondary symbol
Not all old software will display overalys on all symbols without modification.

New software displays:
- old and new / primary symbols same as before
- old and new \ secondary symbol as before
- new overlays on some new blocks will show on new block base symbol
- authors are also welcome to display any number of unique symbols for any number of unique combinatinos of overlays and basic block symbol.

People who want to suggest overlay specific meanings for specific symbols as detailed in http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt shold let me know.

Bob, WB4APR

---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2011 17:31:51 -0400
>From: APRS at yahoogroups.com (on behalf of "Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)" <ldeffenb at homeside.to>)
>Subject: [APRS] APRS 1.2 expanded symbol set  
>To: Bob Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu>
>Cc: "'TAPR APRS Mailing List'" <aprssig at tapr.org>,APRS at yahoogroups.com
>
>As soon as we get some graphic artists to draw up actual bitmaps (I know
>Bob, you don't like bitmaps, but it's what the rest of the world uses)
>for the new special combos as well as whatever the "BASE symbol for the
>overlays" is.
>
>Why can't the latter just be the current alternate table symbol for any
>software that doesn't understand the new definitions?
>
>Why suggest/require changing the base representation in the existing
>alternate table?
>
>I mean, if you do that, then a non-overlayed use of the symbol will be
>different between new and old software.  You're saying that new software
>should use the EXISTING alternate symbol for a non-overlayed station,
>but non-changable software should have the non-overlayed symbol changed
>for the new "BASE symbol for the overlays"?
>
>Why not just let the latter alone so that non-overlayed uses look the
>same no matter where they're viewed from and only newer overlay-aware
>applications actually see the new definitions?
>
>Otherwise, I'm coming to understand your intent with the corrected words.
>
>Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
>
>On 9/19/2011 5:16 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>> Your second paragraph is correct.  The new definitions expect the original
>> symbol in the primary table to always work.  Then a new overlay on an old
>> system will put the overlay on the old secondary symbol.  But NEW software
>> should know the difference.  IE, the following guidance to authors:
>>
>> If the TABLE character is "/" use the old primary symbol
>> If the table character is "\" use the old secondary symbol
>> If the table character is any other overlay, use the NEW BASE OVERLAY symbol
>> for that combo...
>> AND/OR, if SPECIAL COMBO's have been defined in the
>> aprs.org/symbols/symbol-new.txt file, then feel free to include additional
>> unique symbols for each unique combo you feel worth it.
>>
>> In the case of old non-modifiable software like UIview, the symbol needs to
>> be updated to indicate it is overlayable, and then the new "BASE SYMBOL for
>> the overlays" needs to replace the original secondary symbol appearance.
>>
>>> If you attempt to do an overlay on Portable, existing clients
>>> (and even new clients) won't see an overlayed tent, but will
>>> be presented with an overlayed picnic table, NOT what you have
>>> in mind, but of course I could be mistaken.
>> Yes, I am accepting the fact that a picnic table and a tent are close enough
>> to imply something out in the field, and so overlaying a character on either
>> will convey about the same meaning.  That is why I went ahead  on this one.
>> And did not mess with the Eyeball as you correctly pointed out.
>>
>> Hop[e that can work...
>> Bob, Wb4APR
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) [mailto:ldeffenb at homeside.to]
>> Sent: Monday, September 19, 2011 4:58 PM
>> To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
>> Cc: Bob Bruninga; APRS at yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS 1.2 expanded symbol set
>>
>> On 9/19/2011 4:14 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote:
>>> Lynn was right to point out how the EYEBALL overlays are already taken.
>> So
>>> the PORTABLE symbol is the best one we have for using overlays to indicate
>>> types of special portable events.
>> NO, NO, NO!  The Eyeball and Portable (Field Day) symbols are both
>> PRIMARY table symbols and are NOT backward compatible with overlays!
>> All of the previously proposed extended overlay definitions were based
>> on an originally overlayable (read ALTERNATE) table entry.  (And it
>> wasn't the Eyeball that was previously proposed as an overlay, it was
>> the (alternate table) smokestack with related specifics of Haze, Smoke,
>> Blowing Snow/Dust, and Fog as listed at
>> http://www.aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt).
>>
>> If you attempt to do an overlay on Portable, existing clients (and even
>> new clients) won't see an overlayed tent, but will be presented with an
>> overlayed picnic table, NOT what you have in mind, but of course I could
>> be mistaken.
>>
>>> Since the October 2007 APRS1.2 re-alignment of sympbols was proposed,
>> there
>>> have been no substantive objections, so I am going to assume everyone
>> agrees
>>> and declare it approved.
>> The hundreds of newly specifiable overlay meanings MUST (IMHO) be based
>> on originally overlayable symbols from the alternate table.  Otherwise,
>> please log my strenuous objection to the whole concept of the extended
>> overlay definitions (which, incidentally are already implemented in the
>> textual description of the symbols in APRSISCE/32).
>>
>> Am I the only one seeing this or am I mis-interpreting something here?
>> Maybe it's just a naming thing, but you're not really overlaying
>> "Portable" (the tent), but Park/Picknic (the table).  It's a big thing
>> with respect to what people will see in all existing APRS client
>> implementations.
>>
>> Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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