[aprssig] Carry Ons

Dave Baxter dave at emv.co.uk
Tue Jan 8 04:44:27 EST 2008

The main problem with cellphones on flights is not that they interfear
with engine management, flight controls or even navigation systems.
They do however get into the very EMC vulnerable cockpit flight crew
Our company were involved with doing some EMC tests on the ground with a
"borrowed" 737 at Gatwick some years back.
It was amazing to find that whater and wherever you launched the RF in
the passenger cabin, that the highest concentration would appear in the
avionics bay, and thence into the flight deck intercom...
As one pilot said, the last thing you want when trying to land in a
stiff crosswind, is some twit's phone buzzing in your ears all the
It still amazes me though, that with all the notices and instructions
you get as you embark, sit down belt up etc, relating to having to turn
the things off, that at some point in a flight, at least one phone will
ring or beep...   I once saw a French passenger have his phone (that he
was openly using during the flight) taken from him, the battery removed,
and the phone given back.   He was not happy, but the rest of us were!
There is also a problem on the ground, if a phone is flying above, too
many cells can "see" the phone and create problems that way.  So I was
told by someone who works for Vodafone in the UK, at the system techical
I once flew back to London from Hong Kong via Singapore, with a Belcom
LS202 handy in the seat pocket, during a VHF field day.   I could have
"cleaned up" points wise if I could have transmitted!...   (I had an
earpiece and a long lead, also a CD player in the same seat pocket if
anyone asked!)   That was many many years back!  Absolutely zero chance
of getting that on as hand luggage these days...   Even with a valid
licence and no batteries..
Laptops with WiFi though, are still allowed, and if you look (not that
you should have it enabled) you'll find several others all squeeking
away at 2.5GHz during the flight.
Dave G0WBX.


	From: K7FTP [mailto:k7ftp at commtechreview.net] 
	Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 11:41 PM
	To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
	Subject: Re: [aprssig] Carry Ons
	It's interesting to hear about all of this.  
	I flew from PDX to SLC back in 2000 carrying an Icom AH-4 tuner
that I bought at the SEA-PAC Hamfest.  It won't do anything without
being connected to an Icom radio.  I only had a carry-on bag.  This was
back before 9-11.  
	The airport security folks got really concerned about this
obviously professionally manufactured unit that I could not demostrate
for them - even after I showed them my ham license.  Being a firearms
instructor, I knew to ask for the Ground Security Coordinator.
(Remember this, they can step in and get people to engage their working
brain cells).  
	I produced my Amateur Radio Operator license, and showed them
the documentation in the box with it that showed that it went with
another piece of gear.  
	They told the front line folks, "Look, he has a Federal license,
and the box is legit."  Turned to me, "Have a nice flight".  No further
	I have also travelled with butt-in test sets and other tools of
the trade relating to telecommunications.  When asked if I could prove
that it worked, I pulled out a screwdriver and offered to take the wall
jack behind them apart.  They declined and I carried the whole kit on
board - including the screwdriver and the test set.  
	In all honesty, airline security is "harassment security".  It
is designed to make the public feel safe so that they keep spending
their money on flying, and to catch the mentally unbalanced that decide
to do something on the spur of the moment.  It is not designed to do
anything more, but it creates real problems for American Citizens that
travel legitimately with otherwise harmless items.  
	How many people were using cell phones on those flights that hit
the WTC?  They navigated to it just fine.  But they have all of those
phones built into those seats that they need to pay for, I understand
	I'm at CES right now, and I'm wondering how security at McCarran
is going to handle all of the trinkets and baubles...

		----- Original Message ----- 
		From: w2kb at comcast.net 
		To: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List'
<mailto:aprssig at lists.tapr.org>  
		Cc: Alan P. Biddle <mailto:APBIDDLE at UNITED.NET>  
		Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 3:19 PM
		Subject: Re: [aprssig] TSA regs on GPS?

		Last year I left my Cessna 177B Cardinal tied down at
Jefferson City, MO airport when it became apparant that the weather
would be bad for at least a week and I had to get back to work in NJ.
Rented a car and drove home using the portable Garmin 396 GPS from the
plane in the auto mode.  A couple weeks later I flew Continental from
Newark to St. Louis, MO to fly back the Cardinal and had the GPS,
charts, etc. as carryon.  Upon perusing the Continental magazine after
getting on the plane, I noted that a GPS is now a specifically permitted
electronic device above 10,000 feet.  So when the captain announced
laptops, etc. OK I turned it on.  It was cool to see my Continental
flight within a few miles of the breadcrumb trail from my Cardinal
flight west a few weeks earlier.  On of the flight attendants even came
over now and then to watch its display.  <g>
		So no regulations against GPS use, it's entirely at the
discretion of the airline.
		73,  Ken W2KB

			-------------- Original message -------------- 
			From: "Alan P. Biddle" <APBIDDLE at UNITED.NET> 
			> Hi, 
			> A bit off topic, but I suspect many here
travel with a regular GPS. I 
			> checked the TSA and AA web site, but could not
find anything, one way or 
			> another, concerning transporting a GPS and
bean bag mount in carry on bags. 
			> Any experience, or definitive reference? 
			> Alan 
			> WA4SCA 
			> aprssig mailing list 
			> aprssig at lists.tapr.org 


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