[TangerineSDR] TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 16, Issue 32_RM3100temperature effects
Julius Madey
hillfox at fairpoint.net
Mon Aug 3 11:57:16 EDT 2020
Great ! Out of direct sunlight and close to ground level would be best.
On 8/3/2020 11:28 AM, Kim, Hyomin wrote:
> This time, I will try to place the sensor as close as possible to the
> science magnetometer at Jenny Jump and insulate it to minimize the
> temperature effect if any.
> Gil (the site manager) and I will not be available until next week but
> will try to address this issue as soon as possible.
>
> Hyomin
>
> NJIT logo <https://www.njit.edu/> *Hyomin Kim*
> Assistant Professor
> Physics
> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> • (973) 596-5704
> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>
>
>
> On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 1:49 PM Julius Madey via TangerineSDR
> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>> wrote:
>
> That is the claim. So either that's not the case, or perhaps it
> holds for levels in excess of a few hundred nT or something else
> is causing the variations that were observed at Jenny Jump and in
> my various tests. It is probably not B fields very local to the
> adapter board, which sees currents in the 10mA range. Just did
> some tests with 100mA into a twisted pair of #31 magnet wire held
> near different parts of the RM3100 board.
>
> If the twisted pair was 0.5cm or more away from anything on the
> board, no effect observed. If it lay directly on one of the
> sensing inductors, effect was ~ 50nT.
>
> Another thought on temperature stability .... place the mag in an
> in-ground vault. Back in the 60's when we needed xtal oscillator
> stability on the cheap and better than the usual xtal oven of the
> day, we put the oscillator assembly about 3 feet underground.
> Very stable short term and excellent long term. It would
> certainly work for 24 hour observation periods.
>
> Jules Madey-K2KGJ
>
> On 7/31/2020 1:38 PM, tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org
> <mailto:tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org> wrote:
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: Mag update? (David G. McGaw)
>> 2. Re: Mag update? (David G. McGaw)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:36:38 -0400
>> From: "David G. McGaw"<david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu>
>> To:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Mag update?
>> Message-ID:<3718db2a-97b4-eba5-8f0a-e94ead711cd7 at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:3718db2a-97b4-eba5-8f0a-e94ead711cd7 at dartmouth.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Interesting, this, as it says on the RM3100 webpage "Measurements are
>> stable over temperature and inherently free of offset drift" and a
>> temperature coefficient is not even mentioned in the specs.
>>
>> David N1HAC
>>
>> On 7/31/20 11:18 AM, Julius Madey via TangerineSDR wrote:
>>> Good morning all.? Betty Zhang at PNI is responding to the request and
>>> has asked for more information which I have supplied, including some
>>> of the JJ test comparisons, how I ran the calibration runs I did, data
>>> reduction, etc.
>>>
>>> I would suggest one further item for consideration in getting to a
>>> useable solution.? If RM3100 temperature turns out to be a concern,
>>> place the sensor in a small foam insulated box with a proportionally
>>> controlled heater which maintains the temperature at something just
>>> above what would be considered the highest environmental temperature
>>> around the sensor.? That should be relatively simple to do without
>>> introducing an interfering magnetic field local to the sensor.? Some
>>> power would be required but with careful design, I would think well
>>> within 1 watt.
>>>
>>> Another possibility would be using peltier effect heat pumps to do the
>>> same thing, although the technology would probably result is stronger
>>> local B fields from the peltier device and require more power.? The
>>> insulated foam box and proportional heater is also probably the
>>> cheapest approach considering the need to keep overall costs for the
>>> expected users low.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Jules
>>>
>>> On 7/31/2020 10:26 AM, David Witten wrote:
>>>> Hyomin,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not certain what the next step should be.? Julius is hoping for
>>>> further response from PNI on this subject.
>>>>
>>>> If temperature compensation does account for the differences in
>>>> observed response I would think that the important thing to? do may
>>>> be to find a way to calibrate out the discrepancy.? Then we can look
>>>> at insulation to further minimize the effect.
>>>> Calibration will hopefully give us more meaningful values to begin?with.
>>>> Insulation will dampen the effect of those behaviors over short
>>>> timespans.
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately, neither requires changes?in the basic circuit, just
>>>> adjustments to the data collection and device packaging.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>
>>>> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dave
>>>> Sorry that I've been out of the loop for a while as I was
>>>> completely caught up with something else. May I ask you what the
>>>> current status is?
>>>>
>>>> I can visit Jenny Jump if there is something that I can do. At
>>>> this moment, I cannot think of anything that can be fixed from my
>>>> end.
>>>>
>>>> If the temperature compensation is the issue, I could install
>>>> insulations around the sensor.
>>>>
>>>> Hyomin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> NJIT logo
>>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C2e59f624469544810c1c08d8356521e1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318055785489421&sdata=TmqWJw6VYdRSrTgS2xSIifG4OTUj6z5lcBLqd2UedyY%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C2e59f624469544810c1c08d8356521e1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318055785489421&sdata=TmqWJw6VYdRSrTgS2xSIifG4OTUj6z5lcBLqd2UedyY%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> *Hyomin Kim*
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Physics
>>>> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
>>>> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
>>>> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>?? (973)?596-5704
>>>> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
>>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C2e59f624469544810c1c08d8356521e1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318055785499423&sdata=Nz%2B0y9A0svN6RegTKpvfpWgJ%2FCb1N1vKkFr71fqtDFg%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C2e59f624469544810c1c08d8356521e1%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318055785499423&sdata=Nz%2B0y9A0svN6RegTKpvfpWgJ%2FCb1N1vKkFr71fqtDFg%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>>>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Fri, 31 Jul 2020 13:37:51 -0400
>> From: "David G. McGaw"<david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:david.g.mcgaw at dartmouth.edu>
>> To:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
>> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Mag update?
>> Message-ID:<f86f2596-ef2b-25c7-5b12-3f83c4429cb3 at dartmouth.edu> <mailto:f86f2596-ef2b-25c7-5b12-3f83c4429cb3 at dartmouth.edu>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
>>
>> Interesting, this, as it says on the RM3100 webpage "Measurements are
>> stable over temperature and inherently free of offset drift" and a
>> temperature coefficient is not even mentioned in the specs.
>>
>> David N1HAC
>>
>>
>> On 7/31/20 11:44 AM, Julius Madey via TangerineSDR wrote:
>>> One more thought.? I've asked PNI for information both on temperature
>>> and supply voltage sensitivity, the only two variables I could think
>>> of besides the need to minimize local B fields due to currents in
>>> circuit board traces, nearby wiring, etc.
>>>
>>> I did not find data on the temperature stability of the 3.3 volt
>>> regulator Dave's JJ board? is using but the regulator I used with the
>>> original adapter board Dave sent me has about 5 millivolts of change
>>> out of 3.3 volts between 25 and 50 C and Dave's is probably similar.?
>>> That doesn't seem like enough change to produce the observed
>>> variations but that information was given to PNI as well.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 7/31/2020 10:26 AM, David Witten wrote:
>>>> Hyomin,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not certain what the next step should be.? Julius is hoping for
>>>> further response from PNI on this subject.
>>>>
>>>> If temperature compensation does account for the differences in
>>>> observed response I would think that the important thing to? do may
>>>> be to find a way to calibrate out the discrepancy.? Then we can look
>>>> at insulation to further minimize the effect.
>>>> Calibration will hopefully give us more meaningful values to begin?with.
>>>> Insulation will dampen the effect of those behaviors over short
>>>> timespans.
>>>>
>>>> Fortunately, neither requires changes?in the basic circuit, just
>>>> adjustments to the data collection and device packaging.
>>>>
>>>> Dave
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 9:10 AM Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>
>>>> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dave
>>>> Sorry that I've been out of the loop for a while as I was
>>>> completely caught up with something else. May I ask you what the
>>>> current status is?
>>>>
>>>> I can visit Jenny Jump if there is something that I can do. At
>>>> this moment, I cannot think of anything that can be fixed from my
>>>> end.
>>>>
>>>> If the temperature compensation is the issue, I could install
>>>> insulations around the sensor.
>>>>
>>>> Hyomin
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> NJIT logo
>>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C4a7b93ba3ecd455d4e0f08d83568b144%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318071068004568&sdata=O09d%2FBt6N3Iq%2FUVQ5KdQz6V0Km3YIN%2BucnCkc1JQC8E%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.njit.edu%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C4a7b93ba3ecd455d4e0f08d83568b144%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318071068004568&sdata=O09d%2FBt6N3Iq%2FUVQ5KdQz6V0Km3YIN%2BucnCkc1JQC8E%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> *Hyomin Kim*
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Physics
>>>> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
>>>> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
>>>> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>?? (973)?596-5704
>>>> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
>>>> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C4a7b93ba3ecd455d4e0f08d83568b144%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318071068004568&sdata=W4LqWL2HfX4hkY0cMhqWDsY%2FlWS9nz1bpjcEZ9%2FbSNE%3D&reserved=0> <https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https:%2F%2Fweb.njit.edu%2F~hmkim%2F&data=02%7C01%7CDavid.G.McGaw%40dartmouth.edu%7C4a7b93ba3ecd455d4e0f08d83568b144%7C995b093648d640e5a31ebf689ec9446f%7C0%7C0%7C637318071068004568&sdata=W4LqWL2HfX4hkY0cMhqWDsY%2FlWS9nz1bpjcEZ9%2FbSNE%3D&reserved=0>
>>>> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>>>>
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>> End of TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 16, Issue 32
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