[aprssig] [aprsisce] Adding additional symbols

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Tue Oct 1 18:30:29 EDT 2013

> Currently J in the primary table is undefined.
> Let's say I want to make it a Jet Ski...
> What would be the process to get a new symbol...

Convince me....

> There are probably a number of icons that people would like...

Yes, a night mare...  But I am happy to do it, but not then have to nickle
and dime every single idea.  Here are the  issues.

1) There are thousands of potential combinations (36 times the 90+ primary

2) All legacy systems will not even see the overlays on most symbols since
UIview and others only allowed overlays on a few sysbols in the first place.

3) Some APRS operators will see the new overlay characters  in currenlty
maintained clients (D712 and D710 and Yaesu and later) but not older ones.

4) MOST APRS operators will only see one of the generic 90 basic symbols
with just a Character overlay, and not the new symbol until they upgrade to
new clients.

Therefore, I  insist that any new "new symbol" must be a logical subset of
the primary symbol it uses as a base. and make sense.  A "J:" overlayed on
a HOUSE would not be a good jet ski for example.  J on a motorcycle might.

5) Thre are only a very few remaing primary slots, so we cannot use up one
of these without a THOROUGH vetting process to define a NEW primary
category base on which lots of new symbols can be based.

6)  Although I came up with this expansion room just for this purpose, I am
totally swamped and cannot take it on bit by bit.  If someone would like to
be the symbol CZAR to collect all of  the desires, and organize them, and
then make a well thought out and justified proposal, that would help.

I just found another link:  http://aprs.org/symbols.html

So that is another job,  go through all of my evolved documents on
Symbols piece
by piece and identify any conflicts, overlaps, errors and make any specific
recommendations on how I can clean them up.

The main entry points are aprs11.html, aprs12.html, symbols.html and then
all of the symbol related .TXT files they point to.  What a mess.

Just tellintg me to FIX it wont work.  I need specifics.  Id love to have
the time, but it wont happen without help.  And some "help" really is not
help at all but just more work.

Hope that helps

On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Steve Daniels <
steve at daniels270.eclipse.co.uk> wrote:

> ** **
>  Pretty much my thoughts. ****
> If the symbol images were kept in a separate file, with a defined
> structure any future symbols could be added by installing a new file.****
> If current software authors all did the same then, symbols could be added,
> even when the software is no longer supported.****
> As long as the symbols don’t break existing software****
> ** **
> Steve Daniels****
> Amateur Radio Callsign G6UIM****
> **Torbay** Freecycle  Owner****
> http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/torbay_freecycle****
> APRSISCE/32 Beta tester and WIKI editor http://aprsisce.wikidot.com****
>  ****
>   ------------------------------
> *From:* **aprsisce at yahoogroups.com** [mailto:**aprsisce at yahoogroups.com**]
> *On Behalf Of *James Ewen
> *Sent:* 01 October 2013 17:20
> *To:* **aprsisce at yahoogroups.com**
> *Subject:* Re: RE: [aprsisce] Adding additional symbols****
> ** **
>   ****
> On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 9:31 AM, **Robert** Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu>
> wrote:
> >> On those other pages I see references to overlays, but I couldn't find
> > anything about replacing a standard symbol overlaid with an overlay
> > character with a completely different symbol. Is that definition actually
> > buried in there somewhere?
> >
> > Yes see the link in the very first line "for new Symbol Extensions"...
> >
> >> http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt
> >
> > Yes, that's it. Ah, but this is all in APRS1.1 to provide continuity to
> > the original symbol system. The NEW evolution of new symbols is under the
> > symbols section of APRS1.2 (http://aprs.org/aprs12.html ) specifically,
> > this file: (that I should link from APRS11 too)
> > http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-overlays.txt
> Aha, found it this time...
> ] Full Overlay Capability: Means that software will receive and display
> ] all overlay characters and will map any new combinations into any new
> ] symbol sets that may be defined.
> That's the specific part I was looking for. If we are going to define
> the capability, it needs to actually be written down. I was just
> trying to find out if it was written down somewhere so that people
> (including authors of software) would know about the capability.
> > The bitmap is up to the Client Authors that implement a new symbol.
> > But everyone should remember that moble APRS radios will never have these
> > new symbosls for years.
> I highly doubt that any mobile radios will have the symbols... The
> older Kenwoods won't get updated, and the new Kenwood radios don't
> support the full current symbol definition, so the chances of them
> supporting an expanded symbol set is slim to none. I don't believe
> Yaesu supports the full symbol set either.
> Abandoned software will never get update either, but we can't stifle
> the advancement of APRS because old software and hardware won't get
> updated.
> That would be like setting the speed limit on the highway to 25 mph
> because that's as fast as a Model-T could drive safely.
> Here's a new question for you Bob...
> Currently J in the primary table is undefined.
> Let's say I want to make it a Jet Ski (just for argument sake... I
> can't come up with anything better). What would be the process to get
> a new symbol added to the "official" definition? Would it take a
> lobbying effort, where if enough people pestered you, we could get a
> new symbol added?
> There are probably a number of icons that people would like to see
> added, but how to determine which are the most popular, and where to
> define them in the table.
> There would probably need to be a request for symbols made, and then a
> compilation of the results to find the most requested icons. Then an
> actual graphic would need to be drawn up, and added to the set.
> With the ability to define many more symbols via using a common icon,
> with an overlay (modifier), we could expand a whole bunch.
> Of course that could be a pain for authors to try and keep up...
> If the programs could look to an external file for icon definitions,
> that might make it easier.
> I'm pretty sure that UI-View would look at the symbol graphic and snip
> the icons out of the bitmap. If the user could simply update their
> local bitmap, then symbol updates would be easy.
> Of course, adding in multiple overlay characters means that there
> would need to be a whole lot more symbols defined than just what
> Stephen shows on his website.
> I use the hang glider symbol for my Powered Paraglider, but I'd like
> to have a real PPG symbol. /^ with a P overlaid could do that...
> (Aircraft overlaid with a P).
> --
> James
> VE6SRV****
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