[aprssig] APRS on RF?

Dennis Hudson n2lbt at spamcop.net
Thu Apr 14 00:17:08 EDT 2005

I'm sorry I might not have expressed my thoughts properly, or maybe you 
misinterpreted what I said.

In this area >> RELAY,WIDE3-3 << is bad, bad, bad. Very, very bad.

What I was trying to say is that ui-digi, which is used heavily in the 
northeast, has a bug and is causing many more packets to be transmitted 
than desired. Unfortunately, somewhere the path of RELAY,WIDE3-3 is 
published and there are many stations using it in New England, which is 
casing major chaos in neighboring states and countries. Because of the 
bug RELAY,WIDE3-3 is really a 5 hop equation(WIDE5-5), causing a 
theoretical max of 100 copies for each transmission. In reality because 
of the layout of the network and terrain it never gets that far, but it 
is still a nasty mess. 3 hops is really to much in this area, and we 
just can't get the message across.

The trouble is we don't have access to our own network. We have weather 
and emergency operations on frequency, and some yahoo 180 miles away is 
hogging all the bandwidth. I mean what is the recourse man? We ask 
nicely but it just doesn't get through. I'm not the one wrecking the 
network, all the outside traffic is.

I can appreciate your work out there, but each network is different. 
Just like Earl needs his own rules, we can't handle that kind of 
traffic as we are surrounded by hugh population centers with many APRS 
operators in each area.

We recommend <DIRECT>,WIDE (2 hops) here. Our Aloha circle is 
approximately 75 miles. I don't see how Bob's plan effects us. It 
really doesn't make sense to me as a home station should use their 
local digi + one hop.

On Apr 13, 2005, at 7:53 PM, Herb Gerhardt wrote:

> Guess, I did not use the correct address the first time.
> We already had a few discussions on our NW APRS SIG regarding this 
> post, so
> I just want to make it clear that I am staging "NORMALLY" use 5 watts 
> for
> transmitting.  Yes, I am aware that there are many areas in this
> country/world (Canada) that can not hit any digi with 5 watts.  The 
> bottom
> line is to use the lowest power level that you can that will normally 
> but
> not necessarily always get you into your local APRS network.
> Herb
>> Just to show you how "good" we are doing here in the NW.  We "solved" 
>> the
>> problem they are having several years ago through setting changes and
>> educating our people via this sig.  Of course there are exceptions 
>> since you
>> will never reach every user to conform with our recommendations.
>> Note that Dennis is missing the point of the "new" paradigm 
>> discussions.  A
>> WIDE,WIDE3-3 is not recommended anywhere any more because the 
>> original WIDE
>> will be duplicated!  That is why the "new" paradigm uses WIDE1-1 
>> instead of
>> RELAY or just a plain WIDE.  A WIDE1-1 will not be duplicated by a 
>> digi
>> where a plain WIDE will be duplicated because dupe elimination only 
>> works on
>> WIDEn-N.
>> And please remember that home stations and all mobiles should 
>> normally only
>> use 5 watts for transmitting on APRS.  It only takes a few people in a
>> congested area using 50 watts to ruin it for everyone else.  Please be
> considered.
> Sorry Jason, I realize how much you like APRS. But you are dealing with
> egos here. In the northeast we have it many times worse. I have to run
> 50 watts and a beam to get my WX reports 1 hop to the local digi (7
> miles los) with flooded traffic from the greater metro area of
> Eastern/Central MA, CT RI and NH. We still have a groups of "operators"
> running RELAY,WIDE3-3 every 10 minutes over 120 miles away that are
> killing us.
> With the problems with UI-Digi, even a WIDE3-3 is like WIDE,WIDE3-3
> which makes tons of copies all over the place. Spanning 200+ miles.
> It's a friggin mess up here. We were recommending a directed path of
> <localdigi>,WIDE. This should produce no dupes and still takes most
> packets out 60+ miles
> Sorry Bob, your message is NOT getting out there. I'm getting horse
> repeating it.

Dennis Hudson, N2LBT
Albany, NY

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