[aprssig] how to implement 'No more relay' for dummies

Robert Bruninga bruninga at usna.edu
Tue Apr 5 22:43:38 EDT 2005

>>> ad6nh at arrl.net 04/05/05 2:23 PM >>>
>To implement this WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 as a blanket 
>nationwide change is a BAD idea.

I think we agree.  I think Wes confused everyone when
his message appeared to imply for everyone to implemnt
it.  That was never the intent.  I think Wes was just trying
to simplify how it could be implemented, and I hope did not 
intend for it as a blanket solution for everywhere...

The only reason that WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 was offered as a
replacement for RELAY,WIDE2-1 was to offer an alternative 
in those remote areas and to those few individuals that felt 
they wanted that FILL-IN DIGI capability but also wanted to 
get rid of all the RELAY-caused dupes...

>I am still not in agreement with this plan.  I seriously do not 
>think the number of dupes generated by RELAY packets is 
>in any way a detriment to the system.  I can say that with 
>proof of how it is working in L.A., with the trap digi plan and 
>a few digis supporting RELAY, we still cut traffic by almost 
>75% even while still supporting RELAY.

Yes, RELAY is supported in LA still, because one of the main
digis is a UIDIG ROM that can support pre-emptive digipeating
which also solves the RELAY-DUPE problem and is
why it works OK in LA and you dont see that much of an impact.

But in areas where there are no UIDIG ROM digis, and RELAY
is used by most mobiles, it is a big problem.

>[RELAY,WIDEn-N] is easier to understand than 
>WIDE1-1,WIDEn-N, and it is best in my opinion.  I am 
>100% against implementing this and eliminating RELAY.

Again, everyone should temper my enthusiasm for all the
details of the New n-N Paradigm and not think of it as trying
to enforce any specific application in any particular areas.
That is a local decision.  My enthusiasm is that now the
New n-N Paradigm is complete and now has a good solution 
for every single issue that has been raised during its 

Deciding how and when to implement it in an area is a local 
decison.  My job was only to make sure that every element
of it was compatible with the other elements and would work
with all the digi hardware that is out there for those areas
that did decide to improve their networks.  There are at least
10 fixes listed in the New n-N paradigm that digi owners can 
take.  Many of them are independent so sysops can imlement
those that are most compatible with their area...

>I still plan to use RELAY and will be using it on some 
>upcoming events with some new APRS folks as we set up 
>a temporary digi in a canyon for some added coverage.  
>They can set their path to RELAY,WIDE2-2 and understand 
>what  is going to happen.  

I agree, that is the prudent thing to do in your area.  It will
be a long time until RELAY is phased out.  The only point
about WIDE1-1 as a future substitute is that it already works 
in ALL main digis everywhere, so areas that decide to start
using it don't have to wait on anyone else to do it...

Just some thoughts...

More information about the aprssig mailing list