[Possible Spam]Re: [aprssig] winlink

Spider spider at rivcom.net
Fri Dec 31 14:18:59 EST 2004

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga at usna.edu>
To: <aprssig at lists.tapr.org>; <spider at rivcom.net>
Sent: Friday, December 31, 2004 9:26 AM
Subject: [Possible Spam]Re: [aprssig] winlink

> Regarding WinLINK local Objects on APRS:

> 1) Its local info, therefore it should be locally generated.
>   Having it generated somwehere else on the planet, through
>   the WinLINK system, then to firenet,

It does not have to go to the APRS-IS, that is the choice of the APRS-IS 
server operator.

> 2) Being derived from a list instead of actual activity is
>    missleading.

*******Again, this List, in the near future, will be near real time.*******
If the station is not active they will automatically not be on the 
list...standard time outs apply.
>From a server standpoint, it is better to pull from a database rather than 
having individual connects to servers.
Having individuals gate this stuff to RF so that is enters the IS is not 
reliable and will be spotty without any question in my mind.

The near real time list will prove to be better at determining whether a 
node is up and running than a station just sending out a
beacon. Your method you suggest, will make it unmanageable.  Right now, the 
data is there on FireNet.  II means that station registered a telpac node. 
If an Igate wants to gate it to RF, then they can.  If the APRS servers want 
it, Pete has showed them how to do it effectively.  If they do not want to, 
they do not have to
worry about it.

Also now you'll create more double objects going to the APRS-IS when it is 
not necessary to do so.

> 4) If you have to use GridSquares instaed of callsigns as a
>    kludge to make all of #1 above work, then maybe we just need
>    to work on a better way from the ground up?

It's what we have to work with.  The data provided did not give coordinates. 
We really need coordinates of stations.
Callsigns on APRS and WL2K can be the same, thus causing major problems for 
APRS.  For example, WA6OFT-6 is one thing on APRS and
WA6OFT-6 is a node on WL2K.  This is what we used at first and obviously, 
there are problems with that.

> 5) Not using the callsign for the object robs the 85% of APRS
>    mobiles from getting the info they would need to actually
>    use it.

Why?   I see the ones I gate just fine.

11:05:49R WLNK-3>APWL2K,TCPIP,WA6OFT-1,WA7RAT-11,WIDE2-1* <UI>:
;DM24UD   *311803z3408.75N/11417.50WnWA6OFT,145.550,1200,Winlink,PARKER, AZ

11:34:51R WLNK-3>APWL2K,TCPIP,WA6OFT-1,WA7RAT-11,WIDE2-1* <UI>:
;DM22HT   *311833z3248.75N/11522.50WnN6CKS-4,145.650,1200,Winlink,HOLTVILLE, 

11:35:38R WLNK-3>APWL2K,TCPIP,WA6OFT-1,WA7RAT-11,WIDE2-1* <UI>:
;DM34SO   *311833z3436.25N/11227.50WnW7JLC,145.010,1200,Winlink,PRESCOTT, AZ

Those are good packets, and can be seen.  Now, if you are talking D7's and 
D700's I can not do anything about that and are terrible
for use as a mobile terminal, IMHO....even tho many use them for APRS, they 
are totally not effective for robust messaging.
Some folks are hooking up KPC9612's to them to make them useful for robust 

And it is the mobile, portable users that is the prime
>    anticipated user of this service.   I guess you can put only
>    the call and Freq in the first 20 byes to solve this.

Most people that use this will have computers hooked to there TNC's because 
you really need this to handle EMCOMM effectively.  ALL the snowbirds I have 
met that actually use WL2K have laptops or computers hooked to there TNC's. 
This holds true for the ships at sea as well.

>>From what you say, I guess, you are saying that IGates can
> filter on Grid Square?  And so Grid Square is needed.

I can not speak of all Igates, but it is my opinion if you are going to run 
an Igate, as an Igate,
then your range of what you see should be managed.  And that means limited.
If my filter is set for a range like this:  r/34/-114/140   Then I have a 
range view of 140 Km.  If there is a
Telpac node within that range, I gate it.  It's pretty simple stuff.
Some servers are connecting to the filtered port and some to the Read Only 
port as Pete explained
using o/EM13* (using Pete as an example).  This passes objects within that 

> Hummh.  I'd rather that local APRS knowledgible people in an
> area, who know what works and what doesnt and who know
> what assets cover what area, would put a simple WinLINK
> Object Beacon in the nearest DIGI that has the same
> coverage as the WinLINK station and keep the whole thing
> local and a DIRECT packet so that it only hits those people
> that can use it.

Not dependable or reliable.  However, right now, that is certainly
a current local choice....and people can do that right now.  In the near 
you will not be able to trust it doing the job of a near real time 
because while the individual sending the object is sleeping or at work the
telpac node may go down and he'd never know it and keep beaconing away
where as the automated system will catch it and remove the node from the 

Lee, K0QED, has supplied Rick with a DLL that can do what we need.  I am 
sure it's just a matter of
time before it becomes near real time data.  Hang in there.


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