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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Bill,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">One Grape 2 is roughly functionally equivalent to 3 Grape 1s working together.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">By same processing chain, I mean that from the point where each system is providing multiple independent channels of IQ streams, those samples can then be sent through equivalent GNURadio/DigitalRF processes to provide an identical looking
output.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I don’t intend to limit the KA9Q to 3 frequencies. It is just a starting point since Stan already has this working. I’m going to give Rob instructions that he should be able to do this for N channels.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I’m hoping to talk about this on the Grape telecon this morning at 10 AM Eastern. I think Stan and Rob Troy will both be there. I will try to clarify my thoughts then.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">73 Nathaniel W2NAF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Bill Liles <lilesw@gmail.com> <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 22, 2023 5:07 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> TAPR TangerineSDR Modular Software Defined Radio <tangerinesdr@lists.tapr.org><br>
<b>Cc:</b> David Witten <wittend@wwrinc.com>; Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D. <nathaniel.frissell@scranton.edu>; John Ackermann <jra@febo.com>; Mr. Majid Mokhtari <majid.mokhtari@scranton.edu>; Rob Robinett <rob@robinett.us>; Robert D. Troy <robert.troy@scranton.edu>;
Tom McDermott <tom.n5eg@gmail.com><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TangerineSDR] Weekly Status report<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Nathaniel, I am not sure what exactly you mean by “the same processing chain.” The same as what?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">1) one RX888/KA9Q acting as a grape 2 or<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2) three RX888/KA9Q acting as three grape 1s connected together?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I assume one RX888/KA9Q acting like a grape 2 but want to be clear. <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If using one RX888/KA9Q to receive WWV/H and CHU, why limit to three frequencies? Can receive all the WWV/H frequencies and CHU. And for that matter also the AM transmitter used by Dartmouth.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bill NQ6Z<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Thu, Jun 22, 2023 at 00:23 Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D. via TangerineSDR <<a href="mailto:tangerinesdr@lists.tapr.org">tangerinesdr@lists.tapr.org</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Thank you, Dave and Franco. This all looks good.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">A brief update from me. We have a student, Rob Troy, who is tasked with working with the RX888 and the KA9Q software. Rob reports he now has the RX888/KA9Q up and running at Scranton.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Rob’s next task is to make the RX888/KA9Q combination “emulate” the output of a Grape2. Stan Pozerski KD1LE currently has three Grape 1’s tied together all outputting their data
into a single GNU Radio/DigitalRF stream. I believe this is essentially what the Grape 2 will also be doing. I will be having Rob work with Stan Pozerski to get this same processing chain running with the RX888 instead of the Grape 1s.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Next week I will be on travel with a number of students to the NSF CEDAR conference in San Diego, CA. So, it is likely I will not be able to be on the Monday telecon next week.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">73 Nathaniel W2NAF<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b>From:</b> TangerineSDR <<a href="mailto:tangerinesdr-bounces@lists.tapr.org" target="_blank">tangerinesdr-bounces@lists.tapr.org</a>>
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Franco VENTURI via TangerineSDR<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 19, 2023 10:51 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Witten <<a href="mailto:wittend@wwrinc.com" target="_blank">wittend@wwrinc.com</a>>;
<a href="mailto:tangerinesdr@lists.tapr.org" target="_blank">tangerinesdr@lists.tapr.org</a>; Mr. Majid Mokhtari <<a href="mailto:majid.mokhtari@scranton.edu" target="_blank">majid.mokhtari@scranton.edu</a>>; Rob Robinett <<a href="mailto:rob@robinett.us" target="_blank">rob@robinett.us</a>>;
Tom McDermott <<a href="mailto:tom.n5eg@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.n5eg@gmail.com</a>>; John Ackermann <<a href="mailto:jra@febo.com" target="_blank">jra@febo.com</a>><br>
<b>Cc:</b> Franco VENTURI <<a href="mailto:fventuri@comcast.net" target="_blank">fventuri@comcast.net</a>><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [TangerineSDR] Weekly Status report<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Dave,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">first of all thanks for the report and kudos for all your work.
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">A few quick comments:
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">- regarding the maximum throughput achievable with the FX3 the best place to start IMHO is Cypress
AN86947 (<a href="https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-AN86947_Optimizing_USB_3.0_Throughput_with_EZ-USB_FX3-ApplicationNotes-v05_00-EN.pdf?fileId=8ac78c8c7cdc391c017d073e3a2e6243" target="_blank">https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-AN86947_Optimizing_USB_3.0_Throughput_with_EZ-USB_FX3-ApplicationNotes-v05_00-EN.pdf?fileId=8ac78c8c7cdc391c017d073e3a2e6243</a>)
- as you can see there the maximum throughput is achieved using an AUTO DMA channel with the GPIF II interface, 32bit wide, and with a clock rate of 100MHz (and with 4 DMA buffer of 8kB each - bulk transfer mode)
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">- if I remember correctly, Oscar Steila IK1XPV design is based on the 'cyfxbulklpauto' example (you
can find it in 'cyfx3sdk/firmware/dma_examples/cyfxbulklpauto' in the FX3 firmware SDK file 'fx3_firmware_linux.tar.gz'), and on a couple of very useful application notes from Cypress/Infineon: AN65974 "Designing with the EZ-USB FX3 slave FIFO interface" (<a href="https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-AN65974_Designing_with_the_EZ-USB_FX3_Slave_FIFO_Interface-ApplicationNotes-v17_00-EN.pdf?fileId=8ac78c8c7cdc391c017d07396c095deb" target="_blank">https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-AN65974_Designing_with_the_EZ-USB_FX3_Slave_FIFO_Interface-ApplicationNotes-v17_00-EN.pdf?fileId=8ac78c8c7cdc391c017d07396c095deb</a>),
and the 'ping-pong' DMA buffers approach shown in AN75779 "How to implement an image sensor interface using EZ-USB FX3 in a USB Video Class (UVC) framework" (<a href="https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-AN75779_How_to_Implement_an_Image_Sensor_Interface_with_EZ-USB_FX3_in_a_USB_Video_Class_(UVC)_Framework-ApplicationNotes-v13_00-EN.pdf?fileId=8ac78c8c7cdc391c017d073ad2b85f0d)" target="_blank">https://www.infineon.com/dgdl/Infineon-AN75779_How_to_Implement_an_Image_Sensor_Interface_with_EZ-USB_FX3_in_a_USB_Video_Class_(UVC)_Framework-ApplicationNotes-v13_00-EN.pdf?fileId=8ac78c8c7cdc391c017d073ad2b85f0d)</a>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">- when I looked at what he did a few years ago I didn't think it was exceedingly difficult; I remember
the one thing to get right is the design of the GPIF II state machine using the program 'GPIF II Designer' (that I think runs only on Windows), but we can definitely look at what Oscar did and follow his footsteps (I think the design of his GPIF II state machine
is in his GitHub repository too, so we can use that as a starting point) </span>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">- if I have to give you one advice is to try to 'keep things as simple as possible'; this is what
Oscar did in his design of the BBRF103, which he was able to design and make in a relatively short period of time. I think the important thing is to get a prototype out that works even if it is not perfect and meet all the specifications. We can always improve
from that but at least the first step is done. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">- regarding the choice of the ADC I don't think 14bit or 16bit makes much of a difference in terms
of ENOB, since I read somewhere about diminishing returns at those resolutions (can't find the link now); since the FX3 GPIF II works with 16/32 bits at a time, using a 14bit ADC would give us two extra bits for each sample: one could be used for the overflow
bit, and the MSB for the PPS from the GPSDO, which I think is what Tom is doing in the TangerineSDR.
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">- and finally I expect that someone will eventually come out with the "ClementineSDR+" that uses
the LTC2208-16, since for some reason they are dirt cheap on AliExpress. </span>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">73,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:#333333">Franco K4VZ
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">On 06/19/2023 2:36 PM EDT David Witten <<a href="mailto:wittend@wwrinc.com" target="_blank">wittend@wwrinc.com</a>> wrote:
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Hello All,
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">I have attached a PDF covering what I have been doing this week, and What else needs to be addressed. This primarily addresses work on an alternative [Clementine]SDR based on USB
SuperSpeed and beyond. This is a further derivative of the RX-888 and its predecessors.
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Comments Welcome!
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto">Dave Witten, KD0EAG
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<p class="MsoNormal">-- <br>
TangerineSDR mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:TangerineSDR@lists.tapr.org" target="_blank">TangerineSDR@lists.tapr.org</a><br>
<a href="http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org" target="_blank">http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org</a><o:p></o:p></p>
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