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<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Phil,</span></p>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Thanks for letting me know. I’ll reach out to Earle for more information.</span></p>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Ward,</span></p>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Thank you for that reminder and the great design tip. The feedline I will be using is shielded CAT6. One pair carries DC power and the other carries VLF audio. I plan on grounding the shield too. </span></p>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Jules, </span></p>
<p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Would mix 31 be appropriate for VLF? It looks like it’s recommended for a frequency range of 1-300MHz, so it that case, it should eliminate any of those high frequency transients from EFT? They can’t be installed in the conduit, but can be installed on the feedline coming into the Raspberry Pi box.</span></p><p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br></span></p><p class="p1"><span class="s1" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Thanks.</span></p><p class="p1">Jonathan</p><p class="p1">KC3EEY</p></div><div dir="ltr"><br>On Jul 28, 2021, at 4:46 PM, Ward Silver <<a href="mailto:hwardsil@gmail.com">hwardsil@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr">Blocking common-mode RF current using ferrite chokes is a good technique.  So is using shielded cable for everything and metal enclosures bonded together.  Jim has several tutorials about this available on his web page (<a href="http://k9yc.com/publish.htm">k9yc.com/publish.htm</a>) - see the slide show about reducing received noise.  This was an evolution of a presentation on common-mode chokes (<a href="http://www.yccc.org/Articles/W1HIS/CommonModeChokesW1HIS2006Apr06.pdf">http://www.yccc.org/Articles/W1HIS/CommonModeChokesW1HIS2006Apr06.pdf</a>) by Chuck Counselman, W1HIS in the context of reduced received noise. (The presentation was created before Type 31 ferrite became available which is a much better material for EMI suppression.)<div><br></div><div>73, Ward N0AX</div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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</tbody></table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 3:32 PM Julius Madey <<a href="mailto:hillfox@fairpoint.net">hillfox@fairpoint.net</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div>
    On that note, I wonder if it would be a good idea to put a common
    mode choke (multiple turns of the power feed line through an
    appropriate ferrite mix)  in the line ?  K9YC's audio RFI paper is a
    good reference.<br>
    73,<br>
    Jules-K2KGJ<br>
    <br>
    <div>On 7/28/2021 4:02 PM, Ward Silver
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      <div dir="ltr">A quick note - rectifiers, LEDs, or any non-linear
        devices connected to unshielded cables of any significant length
        will happily act as mixers or harmonic generators.  Whenever one
        of these is used, put a 0.01uF disc ceramic across it to bypass
        it at RF.
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div>73, Ward N0AX</div>
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      <div class="gmail_quote">
        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 28, 2021 at 11:41
          AM Jonathan <<a href="mailto:emuman100@gmail.com" target="_blank">emuman100@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
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        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
          <div dir="auto">
            <div dir="ltr">Hi Tom,</div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">That makes a lot of sense. I’ll try fit a
              0.1uF and a 22-47uF electrolytic on the feedline loop. </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Thanks again! </div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
            </div>
            <div dir="ltr">Jonathan</div>
            <div dir="ltr">KC3EEY</div>
            <div dir="ltr"><br>
              On Jul 28, 2021, at 10:55 AM, Tom McDermott <<a href="mailto:tom.n5eg@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.n5eg@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
              <br>
            </div>
            <blockquote type="cite">
              <div dir="ltr">
                <div dir="ltr">
                  <div>Hi Jonathan - a concern is that the DC-DC
                    converter input stage would become unstable and
                    oscillate</div>
                  <div>with the cable inductance.  If that happens then
                    there could be high frequency AC voltages present at
                    the</div>
                  <div>input of the converter.  Would those over-voltage
                    the input?  Possibly.   Would it radiate RFI from
                    the cable?  Likely.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>Good design dictates sufficiently low source
                    impedance to the DC-DC converter.  Almost all linear
                    regulators</div>
                  <div>require it.  An electrolytic and ceramic bypass
                    pair right at the DC-DC input would be considered
                    good design by many.</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div>-- Tom, N5EG</div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
                  </div>
                  <div><br>
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                <br>
                <div class="gmail_quote">
                  <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 28, 2021
                    at 7:30 AM Jonathan <<a href="mailto:emuman100@gmail.com" target="_blank">emuman100@gmail.com</a>>
                    wrote:<br>
                  </div>
                  <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                    <div>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">John, </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Thanks
                          for the suggestion! I think I’ll start with
                          the overvoltage age spike of 50V for 100ms or
                          less based on the datasheet spec of the DC-DC
                          converter. I was thinking of some sort of
                          fusable circuit protection now that I’ll be
                          using a TVS diode to mitigate stress from the
                          follow current. </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span></span><br>
                        </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Tom,</span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The
                          datasheet wasn’t clear on the need for input
                          filtering. On the output of both the IP2415S,
                          I have 0.1uF ceramic capacitors. In the
                          datasheet, it only mentions a spec of “Input
                          Reflected Rated Current” with a series
                          inductor and shunt capacitor. I don’t really
                          understand exactly what this is, but it lists
                          “20mAp-p through a 12uH inductor and 47uF
                          capacitor”. Nothing else is mentioned about
                          input protection or filtering.</span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">In
                          both situations that the DC-DC failed, the
                          cable length was only 4’ of cat 5. This
                          circuit that was proved and tested by Paul,
                          including the receiver and schematic I
                          attached, did not have such an issue, but the
                          only difference is that the voltage was lower
                          than 30V. That’s why I was thinking it was a
                          turn-on/off spike. I think that in a lot of
                          typical applications, the input voltage isn’t
                          that high, so spikes don’t normally present a
                          problem. The DC-DC that feeds the receiver
                          DC-DC has never failed and it was always fed
                          with 18V or less. </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span></span><br>
                        </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Jules,</span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">You
                          recommend the Schottky diode in parallel with
                          the TVS, then a series PTC, so during a spike,
                          the TVS will conduct and the PTC would fuse,
                          and during a reverse polarity condition, the
                          Schottky diode will conduct with limited
                          current due to the PTC fusing? I can see the
                          benefit that the series PTC in normal a normal
                          circuit condition would drop much less voltage
                          that the Schottky diode. </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span></span><br>
                        </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">All
                          in all, I agree with adding some capacitance
                          to filter voltage spikes and reduce or
                          eliminate them. I’ll need to be sure not to
                          exceed the DC-DC max load capacitance, which
                          is 47uF in this case. </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">But,
                          to me, the most plausible cause for the
                          failures are turn on/off voltage spikes, even
                          with a short length of cable. Adding
                          electrolytics is a bit difficult due to the
                          tight space constraint as seen in my previous
                          email, so I’ll try out the TVS and a PTC.
                          Other than voltage spikes, does anything else
                          come to mind? </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><span></span><br>
                        </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Thanks
                          guys. </span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Jonathan</span></p>
                      <p style="font-family:UICTFontTextStyleBody;font-size:17px"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">KC3EEY</span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div><br>
                      <div class="gmail_quote">
                        <div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul
                          27, 2021 at 9:34 AM Jonathan <<a href="mailto:emuman100@gmail.com" target="_blank">emuman100@gmail.com</a>>
                          wrote:<br>
                        </div>
                        <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
                          <div dir="auto">
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Hi
                                  Everyone,</span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Before
                                  the meeting ended last night, I wanted
                                  to discuss the issues I’ve experienced
                                  with my VLF active antenna. As I
                                  mentioned, the DC-DC converter (XP
                                  Power IP2415S) failed after I applied
                                  power. I turned the volume up because
                                  I wasn’t hearing sferics, and shortly
                                  after, I heard the squeal of the DC-DC
                                  converter. When I pulled out the
                                  smaller foam core partially, I heard a
                                  squeal coming from the DC-DC converter
                                  itself. </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><image3.jpeg><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I
                                  had a failure of the DC-DC converter
                                  when I first built the VLF preamp. It
                                  was being powered by the Raspberry Pi
                                  box (same power circuit as my text
                                  box). I had a power failure and when
                                  the power was restored, the DC-DC
                                  converter failed.  In both situations,
                                  it was being supplied with 30VDC, with
                                  the limit is 36V. The reason for using
                                  30V is to overcome the voltage drop
                                  from long cable lengths.</span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">After
                                  both failures, there was a low
                                  impedance across the input of the
                                  DC-DC converter causing the supply to
                                  be pulled down. Because the input and
                                  output are isolated, I figured the
                                  fault had to have been caused by a
                                  voltage spike on the input due to
                                  power being turned on and off. The
                                  datasheet mentions that it can
                                  withstand 50V spikes at 100ms, but I
                                  can’t think of anything else that
                                  could cause the DC-DC to fail,
                                  especially that 30V is used to power
                                  it and any voltage spike would ride on
                                  top of that 30V. I contacted XP Power
                                  about the issue. </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Here
                                  is the schematic of the power path.
                                  The blocks are the IP2415S DC-DC
                                  converter.</span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><img src="cid:17aeedaa2aa43c689201" alt="image1.jpeg" aria-label="0 bytes" style="width: 736px; max-width: 100%;" aria-roledescription="Attachment"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I’m
                                  powering the DC-DC converter with 30V
                                  from another DC-DC converter in the
                                  test box and Raspberry Pi box
                                  (Raspberry Pi box not shown, but same
                                  circuit). </span>Keep in mind, the
                                length is still relatively short in my
                                testing, so cable inductance isn’t the
                                primary reason for the spike. Plus, at
                                long lengths, the voltage would be much
                                lower due to voltage drop across the
                                length, and I think this was why Paul
                                might not have seen this issue when he
                                originally tried and built this design. </div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                              </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">To mitigate this problem
                                with the supply voltage at 30V, I
                                decided to use a TVS diode across the
                                input of the DC-DC converter. Here is
                                the schematic: (my apologies for the TVS
                                diode being backwards)</div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><img src="cid:17aeedaa2ab457b61bf2" alt="image2.jpeg" aria-label="0 bytes" style="width: 736px; max-width: 100%;" aria-roledescription="Attachment"><br>
                              </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">I chose a unidirectional
                                TVS so there is also protection if the
                                voltage spikes have any negative
                                components. I picked a TVS with a
                                working voltage of 33V, a Littel Fuse
                                P4KE39A. According to the datasheet, it
                                looks like this would be adequate. TVS
                                diodes have a PN junction that is more
                                rugged, with a larger surface area for
                                greater current density. One thing I
                                overlooked with this type of circuit
                                protection is that once the TVS
                                conducts, current from the power supply
                                will be shunted too, known as the follow
                                current, and in some situations, this
                                may cause issues requiring a fuse. In
                                this case, since the spikes are probably
                                short duration, and since the DC-DC
                                converter in the text/Pi box has short
                                circuit protection, this should not be
                                an issue. </div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                              </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">So the questions I have
                                are: do you also think it could be
                                voltage spikes that caused the failures,
                                and if so, was my choice of TVS diode
                                adequate. Also, one important question,
                                if I connect the anode of the TVS diode
                                to the receiver side ground, will I lose
                                isolation? I know that during spike
                                current conduction, I will. I’m sure I
                                can still get adequate protection with
                                the TVS diode anode connected to the
                                negative of the isolated power loop too,
                                but I just wanted to be sure. </div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                              </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">Lastly, since the
                                magnetometer board will undergo another
                                revision, I feel it may be worth it to
                                add some sort or adjustable regulator or
                                use of an external power source (not
                                connected to the 5V pin of the Pi
                                header) because even with paralleling
                                wires or pairs, some installations will
                                require very long lengths (especially
                                since interference-free locations are
                                often far away from the shack) and the
                                voltage may drop to where the LDO cant
                                regulate. Using a higher voltage at the
                                Pi end (like I do with the VLF preamp)
                                may be required for some installations.
                                I think this should be considered if it
                                already wasn’t addressed. </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                          <div dir="auto">
                            <div dir="ltr">
                              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                              </div>
                              <div dir="ltr">Jonathan</div>
                              <div dir="ltr">KC3EEY</div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                </span></div>
                              <div dir="ltr"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
                                </span></div>
                            </div>
                            <div dir="ltr"><br>
                              On Jul 27, 2021, at 7:21 AM, Dr. Nathaniel
                              A. Frissell Ph.D. <<a href="mailto:nathaniel.frissell@scranton.edu" target="_blank">nathaniel.frissell@scranton.edu</a>>
                              wrote:<br>
                              <br>
                            </div>
                            <blockquote type="cite">
                              <div dir="ltr"><br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <div><br>
                                  <br>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">Thank you, Tom.</p>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">The recording
                                    will be available later today at <a href="https://youtu.be/AammohuygMw" target="_blank"><br>
                                      <br>
                                      https://youtu.be/AammohuygMw</a>
                                    and <a href="http://hamsci.org/telecons" target="_blank">hamsci.org/telecons</a>.</p>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal">73 de Nathaniel
                                    W2NAF</p>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <div style="border-color:rgb(225,225,225) currentcolor currentcolor;border-style:solid none none;border-width:1pt medium medium;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b>From:</b>
                                      TangerineSDR <<a href="mailto:tangerinesdr-bounces@lists.tapr.org" target="_blank">tangerinesdr-bounces@lists.tapr.org</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <b>On Behalf Of </b>Tom McDermott
                                      via TangerineSDR<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 26, 2021
                                      10:02 PM<br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <b>To:</b> TAPR TangerineSDR
                                      Modular Software Defined Radio
                                      <<a href="mailto:tangerinesdr@lists.tapr.org" target="_blank">tangerinesdr@lists.tapr.org</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <b>Cc:</b> Tom McDermott <<a href="mailto:tom.n5eg@gmail.com" target="_blank">tom.n5eg@gmail.com</a>><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <b>Subject:</b> [TangerineSDR]
                                      Notes from PSWS / TangerineSDR
                                      call of 07-26-2021</p>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                  <div><br>
                                    <br>
                                    <div><br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">Notes from
                                          PSWS / TangerineSDR call of
                                          07-26-2021</p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">1. Bill is
                                          using chart.js for
                                          magnetometer charting. He is
                                          setting up a database using
                                          Django web and database
                                          framework for Python.</p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">2. Scotty
                                          is looking at the Intel
                                          (Altera) Arria 10 GX FPGA
                                          10GX270 for the version 2 Data
                                          Engine (supporting 10GE).
                                          These FPGAs appear to be more
                                          available than the MAX10
                                          FPGAs. The intention is to
                                          develop DE Ver 1 and DE Ver 2
                                          in parallel<br>
                                          <br>
                                          while awaiting FPGA component
                                          availability. The 10 GX
                                          development boards are pretty
                                          expensive. </p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal">-- Tom,
                                          N5EG</p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                      <div><br>
                                        <br>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
                                        <br>
                                        <br>
                                      </div>
                                      <br>
                                      <br>
                                    </div>
                                    <br>
                                    <br>
                                  </div>
                                  <br>
                                  <br>
                                </div>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
                                -- <br>
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