[TangerineSDR] Fwd: another 24hour RM3100 run and comparison with Fredericksburg
Julius Madey
hillfox at fairpoint.net
Fri Oct 30 23:55:05 EDT 2020
As I understand the physical format of the new boards, the housings I've
been working on for direct burial will have to be redesigned. If the
intent is for Hyomin to use the new boards, I'll wait until I can get a
sample to design the new packaging. Dave Witten's old 0.10 rev board
which has been working well over 400 feet of CAT5E fits nicely into a 1
1/4 inch ID PVC pipe in a vertical position which swaps the Z and X axis
orientations and which I have been using for all of the reported
observations to date.
Temperature control of some sort to at least 1degree C .... constant
temp oven or direct burial will be necessary to obtain meaningful readings.
73 de Jules Madey -K2KGJ
On 10/30/2020 4:35 PM, Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D. wrote:
>
> Hi Hyomin and Jules,
>
> We are soon going to be able to send out the new prototype
> magnetometers that will interface with the PSWS radio systems. Scotty
> has them in his possession now, and we will work them up for shipping
> soon.
>
> 73 de Nathaniel W2NAF
>
> *From:* Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu>
> *Sent:* Friday, October 30, 2020 12:53 PM
> *To:* Julius Madey <hillfox at fairpoint.net>
> *Cc:* Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D.
> <nathaniel.frissell at scranton.edu>; TAPR TangerineSDR Modular Software
> Defined Radio <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>; John Gibbons
> <jcg66 at case.edu>; David Witten <wittend at wwrinc.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [TangerineSDR] Fwd: another 24hour RM3100 run and
> comparison with Fredericksburg
>
> Sounds good, Jules.
>
> It doesn't matter where more than two magnetometers are installed. I
> simply wanted to see multiple magnetometers running in the same
> environment so we confirm that magnetometers put out reliable data
> once installed at many locations.
>
> I'd like to hear from Dave Witten about our action plan.
>
> Hyomin
>
>
> NJIT logo <https://www.njit.edu/>
>
>
>
> *Hyomin Kim*
> Assistant Professor
> Physics
> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> • (973) 596-5704
> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>
> On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 1:50 PM Julius Madey <hillfox at fairpoint.net
> <mailto:hillfox at fairpoint.net>> wrote:
>
> Hyomin,
> Since our last, I've had to devote time to several other matters
> and haven't progressed much toward your unit. However, that
> appears to be a good thing since I was planning to send you the
> single mag unit I've been using here repackaged for burial up to
> 30 inches and with cable connections that match your present
> setup. Along with that, I was building a two magnetometer unit to
> do comparisons in my location.
>
> So, I'll reverse course and finish the two mag unit for you. The
> magnetometer adapter boards will be the same as you're using now
> the only change being the second magnetometer and the termperature
> sensor will have different addresses on the i2c bus .... you
> access both mags on the same cable. Dave Witten will have to do
> some program changes to capture both units but the setup will
> provide the best arrangement for comparison of two magnetometers
> ...... both in the same local temperature and magnetic environment.
>
> Jules
>
> On 10/29/2020 1:15 PM, Kim, Hyomin wrote:
>
> Hi Jules,
>
> Could you please briefly give us an update on how things go?
>
> I'd like to have at least two sensors so signals can be
> compared back to back.
>
> NJIT logo <https://www.njit.edu/>
>
>
>
> *Hyomin Kim*
> Assistant Professor
> Physics
> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> • (973) 596-5704
> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 11:33 PM Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu
> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>> wrote:
>
> Sounds good. Looking forward to it!
>
> We also have to coordinate with Gil or Chris (another NJIT
> engineer) who will escort us there.
>
> Hyomin
>
> NJIT logo <https://www.njit.edu/>
>
>
>
> *Hyomin Kim*
> Assistant Professor
> Physics
> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
> hmkim at njit.edu <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> • (973) 596-5704
> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 8:40 PM Julius Madey
> <hillfox at fairpoint.net <mailto:hillfox at fairpoint.net>> wrote:
>
> I think that would work. Have to finish some
> assembly here and then come up with a schedule.
> Jules
>
> On 10/13/2020 5:13 PM, Dr. Nathaniel A. Frissell Ph.D.
> wrote:
>
> Hi Hyomin and Jules,
>
> If I’m available, I’d like to join you as well.
> I’d really enjoy getting to meet Jules in person.
>
> 73 de Nathaniel
>
> *From:* Kim, Hyomin <hmkim at njit.edu>
> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 13, 2020 5:02 PM
> *To:* Julius Madey <hillfox at fairpoint.net>
> <mailto:hillfox at fairpoint.net>
> *Cc:* TAPR TangerineSDR Modular Software Defined
> Radio <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
> <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>; John Gibbons
> <jcg66 at case.edu> <mailto:jcg66 at case.edu>; David
> Witten <wittend at wwrinc.com>
> <mailto:wittend at wwrinc.com>; Dr. Nathaniel A.
> Frissell Ph.D. <nathaniel.frissell at scranton.edu>
> <mailto:nathaniel.frissell at scranton.edu>
> *Subject:* Re: [TangerineSDR] Fwd: another 24hour
> RM3100 run and comparison with Fredericksburg
>
> Hi Jules - Thanks for your tip. Would you be
> willing to come down here to install it together?
> It would be fun!
>
> All - It appears that the magnetometer I have is
> behaving well. However, it would be better if I
> have about >2 sets so I can check whether all the
> sensors are consistently behaving (which is
> extremely important for such a largely spaced
> network configuration). Do we have a timeline for
> more testing sets? If not, I will visit Jenny Jump
> to install the sensor again with a better
> temperature management scheme as Jules suggested.
>
> Sorry for my slow response. I am quite swamped by
> my teaching workload this semester (somewhat
> unexpected...).
>
> Cheers,
>
> Hyomin
>
> NJIT logo <https://www.njit.edu/>
>
>
>
> *Hyomin Kim*
> Assistant Professor
> Physics
> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
> hmkim at njit.edu
> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> • (973) 596-5704
> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street, Newark, NJ 07102
>
> On Mon, Oct 5, 2020 at 6:07 PM Julius Madey
> <hillfox at fairpoint.net
> <mailto:hillfox at fairpoint.net>> wrote:
>
> Hyomin,
> During your run, the temperature of the 3100
> was probably reasonably constant so your
> result is consistent with basic 3100 specs.
> Keeping the temperature constant over 24 hours
> should give you a close alignment with future
> JJ station measurements. Good news.
> I can house your rm3100 in the same way I did
> mine or, I think I have enough extra parts now
> from Dave to make one up and send it down ....
> possibly drive it down since you're about 150
> road miles from here, which I can do in three
> hours.
> Jules
>
> On 10/5/2020 5:31 PM, Kim, Hyomin wrote:
>
> Hi Dave, Jules and Nathaniel,
>
> Sorry that it took me so long to work on
> the data that was retrieved from Jenny
> Jump. The two sensors (Bartington and our
> mag) were placed inside a solenoid which
> was then placed inside a mu-metal case.
> Long story short, there is NO reason to
> believe that our magnetometer behaves in a
> different way compared to the other. They
> trace the artificially generated fields
> well. The only thing that needs to be
> addressed later is that the given field
> was so big that the output signals were
> saturated - the fields inside the
> solenoids should have been decreased to
> avoid saturation. My oversight that I had
> to leave the site in a rush. However, both
> sensors traced the fields in the same way.
> I hope I will have more time to stay at
> Jenny Jump next time to monitor the
> signals more carefully as the NJIT system
> has now been fixed.
>
> Please share this during the Tangerine
> meeting tonight as I will not be able to
> attend it this time due to the conflict
> with my lecture which is expected to be
> longer than last week...
>
> Hyomin
>
>
> NJIT logo <https://www.njit.edu/>
>
>
>
> *Hyomin Kim*
> Assistant Professor
> Physics
> Center for Solar-Terrestrial Research
> Institute for Space Weather Sciences
> hmkim at njit.edu
> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu> • (973) 596-5704
> https://web.njit.edu/~hmkim/
> 104 Tiernan Hall, 161 Warren Street,
> Newark, NJ 07102
>
> On Tue, Sep 22, 2020 at 9:45 PM Julius
> Madey via TangerineSDR
> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>> wrote:
>
> Dear John,
> Yes, temperature information was
> posted a while back. PNI initially
> claimed that there was no temperature
> effect due to the essentially self
> compensating scheme used for field
> measurement. After I measured as much
> as a 7-10nT per degree C tempco in
> some controlled oven experiments and
> sharing that data with PNI, PNI
> eventually replied that engineering
> had measured a maximum of +/- 2nT per
> degree C for the inductors alone but
> had not characterized the complete sensor.
>
> The data I have taken so far is not
> complete but indicates that the tempco
> (1) may not be equal on all axes,
> including differences in sign and (2)
> may not be assumed to be equal for any
> two units and (3) may not be linear
> with temperature, making algorithmic
> correction of the recorded data difficult.
>
> Hence, my attempts to achieve
> temperature stabilization to better
> than 1 degree C over 24 hours for the
> recordings I've been doing (sensor in
> a housing that can be easily buried
> sub surface).
>
> Have also done some experiments with
> an insulated chamber containing a
> thermal mass, equivalent to a low pass
> filter, to achieve stabilization.
>
> Another approach is a temperature
> controlled oven set to a few degrees
> above expected maximum local ambient
> temp but that requires power, which
> complicates long cable runs.
>
> At just 19-20 inches below grade in my
> shaded woodlot, 24 hour temperature
> stability has been within 0.7C.
> Another 12-16 inches for the next
> install should bring that to a diurnal
> variation of perhaps 0.1C in this
> location.
>
> Jules K2KGJ
>
> On 9/22/2020 7:52 PM, John Gibbons wrote:
>
> All,
>
> I have not kept up on this thread
> due to other commitments, but I
> don't see any mention of the
> temperature data and plotting
> correlated to the data acquisition
> of the 3 axis magnetometer (or
> more likely I missed it).
>
> I believe that the RM3100 uses
> ferrite core inductors for the 3
> axis magnetic pickups and ferrites
> definitely have a tempco (voice of
> experience...). Even a 1 Deg C may
> have an impact on the mu of the
> ferrite at the 1nT measurement levels.
>
> You've probably already done this
> (if so please point me to it) but
> has this been looked at / tested
> for / quantified?
>
> John N8OBJ
>
> John C. Gibbons
>
> Director - Sears Undergraduate
> Design Laboratory
>
> Dept. of Electrical Engineering
> and Computer Science
>
> Case Western Reserve University
>
> 10900 Euclid Ave, Glennan 314
>
> Cleveland, Ohio 44106-7071
> Phone (216) 368-2816
> <tel:216-368-2816> FAX (216)
> 368-6888 <tel:216-368-6888>
> E-mail: jcg66 at case.edu
> <mailto:jcg66 at case.edu>
>
> On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 4:18 PM
> Julius Madey via TangerineSDR
> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>>
> wrote:
>
> Forgot to mention that one
> thing to keep in mind is the
> difference in raw data
> processing between the
> absolute value sliding 1minute
> average plots I do with a
> spreadsheet with the more
> complex algorithm delta B
> plots from Intermagnet. I'm
> not sure how the 10nT anomaly
> would appear if the same
> Intermagnet processing
> algorithm was used.
> Hyomin ?????
>
> On 9/15/2020 10:38 AM, Phil
> Erickson wrote:
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> The X and Y traces
> return after 24 hours to
> nearly the same relative
> value in both the
> reference and RM3100
> traces. The Z trace does
> not. Ionospheric currents
> flowing in the E region
> should not affect Z
> exclusive of X and Y under
> most any geometry I can
> think of, so I wondered
> whether the uncalibrated
> RM3100 was likely causing
> this. (I have never
> professionally calibrated
> a magnetometer, so Hyomin
> might need to comment
> here.). In other words, I
> always assume there is
> some measurement
> systematic until it has
> been completely ruled out
> before assigning it to
> geophysical variation.
>
> 73
>
> Phil W1PJE
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020 at
> 10:34 AM David Witten
> <wittend at wwrinc.com
> <mailto:wittend at wwrinc.com>>
> wrote:
>
> @Phil,
>
> Correlation is great,
> and surely some
> further calibration
> issues may remain.
> But these sensors are
> NOT colocated -
> (200-300+ mi apart?) .
> Wouldn't it be
> suspicious if they did
> correlate perfectly?
> If they did,
> shouldn't we ask if
> we do really need an
> extensive array of
> these sensors?
> Presumably there will
> always be some local
> variation at this
> scale? (don't know,
> just asking)
>
> Dave Witten, KD0EAG
>
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2020
> at 7:21 AM Phil
> Erickson
> <phil.erickson at gmail.com
> <mailto:phil.erickson at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> There appears to
> be a 10 nT drift
> in the Z component
> for the RM3100
> that is not in the
> Fredericksburg
> traces. Is that
> slow systematic
> bias expected?
> Maybe things are
> not calbrated over
> that time frame
> quite yet?
>
> 73
>
> Phil W1PJE
>
> On Mon, Sep 14,
> 2020 at 10:49 PM
> David Witten via
> TangerineSDR
> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> <mailto:tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>>
> wrote:
>
> I don't
> believe that
> my previous
> post carried
> the file K2KGJ
> provided.
>
> ----------
> Forwarded
> message ---------
> From: *Julius
> Madey*
> <hillfox at fairpoint.net
> <mailto:hillfox at fairpoint.net>>
> Date: Mon, Sep
> 14, 2020 at
> 4:26 PM
> Subject:
> another 24hour
> RM3100 run and
> comparison
> with
> Fredericksburg
> To: Kim,
> Hyomin
> <hmkim at njit.edu
> <mailto:hmkim at njit.edu>>,
> David Witten
> <wittend at wwrinc.com
> <mailto:wittend at wwrinc.com>>,
> Dr. Nathaniel
> A. Frissell
> Ph.D.
> <nathaniel.frissell at scranton.edu
> <mailto:nathaniel.frissell at scranton.edu>>,
> Dave Larsen
> <kv0s.dave at gmail.com
> <mailto:kv0s.dave at gmail.com>>
>
> All,
> I was hoping
> to record a
> relatively
> short term
> event but
> missed one
> about 10 days
> ago. However,
> there was a
> good run on
> the 12th with
> an ~30nT
> excursion on
> the Y axis
> lasting about
> an hour. In
> the attached
> pdf, the three
> axes of the
> RM3100 again
> track the
> Fredericksburg
> magnetometer
> station data
> quite
> closely. The
> RM3100 plotted
> data points
> are simple
> running
> 60second
> averages and
> not the more
> complex
> filtering
> algorithm used
> by Intermagnet
> stations for
> their 1 minute
> data points.
>
> The vertical
> axes scales on
> all plots are
> as close as I
> could match
> them by eye in
> cutting and
> pasting.
>
> I believe the
> value to the
> right on the
> Intermagnet
> plot is the
> mean for the
> 24 hour
> period. I did
> not try to
> compute a 24
> hour mean.
>
> One of the
> products for
> the future for
> general
> interest would
> be a running
> plot like
> those
> available on
> Intermagnet.org.
> I guess we can
> dream a bit.
>
> Jules - K2KGJ
>
> --
> TangerineSDR
> mailing list
> TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org
> <mailto:TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org>
> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
>
>
> --
>
> ----
> Phil Erickson
> phil.erickson at gmail.com
> <mailto:phil.erickson at gmail.com>
>
>
> --
>
> ----
> Phil Erickson
> phil.erickson at gmail.com
> <mailto:phil.erickson at gmail.com>
>
> --
> TangerineSDR mailing list
> TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org
> <mailto:TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org>
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>
> --
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