[TangerineSDR] FW: Elevator Pitch for Tangerine PSWS
Graham c
colonelkrypton at gmail.com
Mon Oct 14 17:25:00 EDT 2019
What is the wwv ssr project?
cheers, Graham ve3gtc
On Mon, Oct 14, 2019 at 7:58 PM Kristina Collins via TangerineSDR <
tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org> wrote:
> Hi Stephen,
>
> That's a reasonable concern. I should note that it's part of a larger
> feature on the use of ham radio for space science, covering HamSCI and
> the WWV SSR project as well. Tangerine isn't the focus, but I'd like
> to touch on it as part of the discussion of the PSWS and related
> citizen science activity in the ham community.
>
> I'll be on the TeamSpeak call this evening and look forward to
> checking in with folks then.
>
> 73,
> -KC
>
> On 10/14/19, Stephen Roland Kaeppler via TangerineSDR
> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org> wrote:
> > Hi All-
> >
> > I saw the thread about the elevator pitch into EOS. I am a little bit
> > concerned that this might be premature? Shouldn't we have a working
> > prototype first and then perhaps pitch what it can be used for? Or
> possibly
> > some initial data?
> >
> > I am open to other options, but EOS is a broad audience, so I feel we
> should
> > have something that is more complete... but that is my just my two cents.
> >
> > 73,
> > Steve AD0AE
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > Stephen R. Kaeppler, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Physics and Astronomy
> > Clemson University
> > Clemson, SC 29634
> > Email: skaeppl at clemson.edu
> > Phone: 864-656-4275
> > Web: http://science.clemson.edu/kaeppler/
> > Amateur Radio Callsign: AD0AE
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > On 10/14/19, 12:00 PM, "TangerineSDR on behalf of
> > tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org" <
> tangerinesdr-bounces at lists.tapr.org on
> > behalf of tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org> wrote:
> >
> > Send TangerineSDR mailing list submissions to
> > tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> >
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> >
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of TangerineSDR digest..."
> >
> >
> > Today's Topics:
> >
> > 1. Re: TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 7, Issue 10 (Scotty Cowling)
> > 2. Re: Elevator Pitch for Tangerine PSWS (Scotty Cowling)
> > 3. Re: Seeking your Review and Comment on Tangerine SBC
> > Functional Specification (Engelke, Bill)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 13:59:08 -0700
> > From: Scotty Cowling <scotty at tonks.com>
> > To: tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> > Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 7, Issue 10
> > Message-ID: <c238a2b4-38c7-0854-141d-e46844bcf4a5 at tonks.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
> >
> > Hi Larry,
> >
> > Welcome to the list! What kind of data are you looking for in the 15 to
> > 30 MHz spectrum? Are you just looking for energy content or are you
> > looking to demodulate certain sub bands? Or maybe energy content in
> > specific sub-bands?
> >
> > Just trying to get an idea of the processing that the TangerineSDR will
> > need to do on the input data in order to make sure that we can fulfill
> > your use case.
> >
> > 73,
> > Scotty WA2DFI
> >
> > On 2019-10-12 09:29, Larry Dodd via TangerineSDR wrote:
> >> Hi
> >> I?m a member of the NASA volunteer RadioJOVE project. We are very
> >> interested in your work to produce a PSWS with TangerineSDR. We monitor
> >> the 15 to 30 MHz spectrum 24/7/365 for Jupiter storms, Solar avtivity
> and
> >> the ionosphere in general and looking for an SDR to meet our future
> needs.
> >> Thanks to everyone working on this project.
> >> Larry
> >> K4LED
> >>
> >>> On Oct 12, 2019, at 12:00 PM, tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Send TangerineSDR mailing list submissions to
> >>> tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> >>>
> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
> >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>> tangerinesdr-request at lists.tapr.org
> >>>
> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>> tangerinesdr-owner at lists.tapr.org
> >>>
> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >>> than "Re: Contents of TangerineSDR digest..."
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Today's Topics:
> >>>
> >>> 1. Elevator Pitch for Tangerine PSWS (Kristina Collins)
> >>> 2. Re: Elevator Pitch for Tangerine PSWS (Phil Erickson)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Message: 1
> >>> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:06:22 -0400
> >>> From: Kristina Collins <kvc2 at case.edu>
> >>> To: tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> >>> Subject: [TangerineSDR] Elevator Pitch for Tangerine PSWS
> >>> Message-ID:
> >>> <
> CAEeerr78U8UZP96jECqp3wW+wQEZpjg5_oE-E7GuiYOZcxKEpQ at mail.gmail.com>
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>>
> >>> Hi all,
> >>>
> >>> I'm putting together an article for Eos (eos.org) on the use of ham
> >>> radio
> >>> in geoscience, focusing on the two versions of the PSWS. What salient
> >>> points should I be making about the Tangerine and its role? I have a
> few
> >>> hundred words to work with for that part of the article.
> >>>
> >>> Bonus question for the space scientists in the audience (looking at
> you,
> >>> Phil & Nathaniel): What should I say about TIDs and other phenomena we
> >>> want
> >>> to characterize?
> >>>
> >>> -KC
> >>> -------------- next part --------------
> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >>> URL:
> >>> <
> http://lists.tapr.org/pipermail/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org/attachments/20191011/b0ab43b4/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Message: 2
> >>> Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2019 15:08:46 -0400
> >>> From: Phil Erickson <phil.erickson at gmail.com>
> >>> To: TAPR TangerineSDR Modular Software Defined Radio
> >>> <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Elevator Pitch for Tangerine PSWS
> >>> Message-ID:
> >>> <CAAZaqEuy31y=S5Q=
> 6k3TOTJ4+g9CH+odKCSZu2U_AxjisJONkQ at mail.gmail.com>
> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >>>
> >>> Hi Kristina,
> >>>
> >>> I can't answer that question until I see the context of the rest of
> >>> the
> >>> article. Best to put a draft together and share it in an editable
> >>> online
> >>> place such as Overleaf (if LaTeX source) or Google Docs, and then we
> can
> >>> crowdsource it.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers
> >>> Phil
> >>>
> >>>> On Fri, Oct 11, 2019 at 3:07 PM Kristina Collins via TangerineSDR <
> >>>> tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi all,
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm putting together an article for Eos (eos.org) on the use of ham
> >>>> radio
> >>>> in geoscience, focusing on the two versions of the PSWS. What salient
> >>>> points should I be making about the Tangerine and its role? I have a
> >>>> few
> >>>> hundred words to work with for that part of the article.
> >>>>
> >>>> Bonus question for the space scientists in the audience (looking at
> >>>> you,
> >>>> Phil & Nathaniel): What should I say about TIDs and other phenomena we
> >>>> want
> >>>> to characterize?
> >>>>
> >>>> -KC
> >>>> --
> >>>> TangerineSDR mailing list
> >>>> TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org
> >>>> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ----
> >>> Phil Erickson
> >>> phil.erickson at gmail.com
> >>> -------------- next part --------------
> >>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> >>> URL:
> >>> <
> http://lists.tapr.org/pipermail/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org/attachments/20191011/b6bd032d/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> Subject: Digest Footer
> >>>
> >>> TangerineSDR mailing list
> >>> TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org
> >>> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ------------------------------
> >>>
> >>> End of TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 7, Issue 10
> >>> *******************************************
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sun, 13 Oct 2019 15:59:08 -0700
> > From: Scotty Cowling <scotty at tonks.com>
> > To: tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org
> > Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Elevator Pitch for Tangerine PSWS
> > Message-ID: <5f9d9f8d-dec2-53d4-9cb9-a6c60d04185d at tonks.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> > Hi Kristina,
> >
> > The main points of the TangerineSDR are:
> > Wide-band Direct Sampling DDC (four 500MByte/s digital input paths) with
> > on-board FPGA
> > High-speed data interfaces (USB 3.0 (@5Gbps) *and* dual GBe)
> > Modularity and expandability (up to 4 RF input channels, selectable
> > oscillator quality (TCXO/OCXO/GPSDO) and expandable low- and high-speed
> > I/O)
> > Easy pairing with SBC or Desktop PC (dual GBe ports) allows inexpensive
> > pre-processing and network authentication
> >
> > Is that some help in filling a few hundred words? The above is more like
> > a features list, so here are a few tie-ins to PSWS:
> > oscillator can be upgraded to GPSDO for PSWS high-resolution data
> > time-stamping
> > dual, synchronously clocked 14-bit ADCs for synchronous RF sampling
> > seamlessly integrates with a Single-Board Computer to provide PSWS
> > pre-processing and authentication
> > high-speed data interfaces provide wide simultaneous receive bandwidth?
> > (>20MHz via GBe, >100MHz USB3.0 maximum)
> > FPGA can split data into eight 192KHz simultaneous virtual receive
> > streams, each centered anywhere within 0-60MHz antenna input
> >
> > Hope some of this is helpful.
> >
> > 73,
> > Scotty WA2DFI
> >
> > On 2019-10-11 12:06, Kristina Collins via TangerineSDR wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> I'm putting together an article for Eos (eos.org <http://eos.org>) on
> >> the use of ham radio in geoscience, focusing on the two versions of
> >> the PSWS. What salient points should I be making about the Tangerine
> >> and its role? I have a few hundred words to work with for that part of
> >> the article.
> >>
> >> Bonus question for the space scientists in the audience (looking at
> >> you, Phil & Nathaniel): What should I say about TIDs and other
> >> phenomena we want to characterize?
> >>
> >> -KC
> >>
> >
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> > URL:
> > <
> http://lists.tapr.org/pipermail/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org/attachments/20191013/06d71c12/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2019 15:22:30 +0000
> > From: "Engelke, Bill" <bill.engelke at ua.edu>
> > To: Rob Wiesler <robert.wiesler at case.edu>, "TAPR TangerineSDR Modular
> > Software Defined Radio" <tangerinesdr at lists.tapr.org>
> > Subject: Re: [TangerineSDR] Seeking your Review and Comment on
> > Tangerine SBC Functional Specification
> > Message-ID: <52047bd0a2254d3c80ed98c98973629a at ua.edu>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > Rob, I added the distribution list as you suggested. I greatly value your
> > knowledgeable feedback, so please keep it coming.
> >
> > Regarding Celery: I am not crazy about Celery; I mention it only because
> it
> > is used in the SatNOGS system. We have decided that we wish base the
> PSWS
> > Central Control system/database on SatNOGS (at least for Phase 1), as its
> > functionality and UI seems to overlap so much on our needs. Having said
> that
> > (since you mention that Celery may not fit the need), we should probably
> > discuss what data is going to be generated, and then seek the right
> package
> > for managing the uploads. (As an aside, I have the entire SatNOGS system
> > running on a server; if you like, we can look at it together on a Zoom
> > session, and see what they are actually using Celery for).
> >
> > On the topic of heterogeneous vs homogeneous data, right now we envision
> two
> > distinct data types:
> >
> > 1. Raw I/Q data from ring buffer ("Use Case 1"). These data are stored
> in
> > ring buffer in Digital RF format. On request from Central Control, a
> > selected chunk of data (from start time A to end time B) are to uploaded.
> > Upon receipt, Central Control stores these as Digital RF files, with the
> > file name being generated automatically, and the file name being stored
> in
> > the database.
> >
> > 2. Pre-processed data. ("Use Case 3") This case is for users with low
> > bandwidth. An upload occurs about once per second (or could be as low as
> > once per minute). GNURadio samples the bands (normally a few Hz around
> each
> > WWV station), and does an FFT. The FFT is uploaded (along with
> magnetometer
> > data) and stored directly in a database table.
> >
> > (There is a third situation, "Use Case 2," or "firehose," where raw data
> is
> > streamed directly to a server. Central Control does not support that; it
> > would be received by the institution's server farm or supercomputer).
> >
> > Use Case 3, best I can tell, matches what SatNOGS does: they pre-process
> > received spectrum into a waterfall, and that's what they upload. We can
> > certainly ask them why they picked Celery to use (for all I know, maybe
> they
> > regret it). Maybe they are using Celery for something else (i.e., not for
> > uploading). Its complexity definitely increases project risk.
> >
> > There are numerous other queueing packages. I have used IBM's Websphere
> MQ
> > (works great, but costs a fortune) and MQTT, both with good success;
> > however, I also gather we need to distinguish between task queueing and
> data
> > queueing. Maybe there is an apples-to-oranges here. Anyway , let me know
> > your thoughts.
> >
> > -73- Bill, AB4EJ
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Rob Wiesler <robert.wiesler at case.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, October 12, 2019 6:03 PM
> > To: Engelke, Bill <bill.engelke at ua.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Seeking your Review and Comment on Tangerine SBC Functional
> > Specification
> >
> > Bill, I won't re-add the mailing list to the distribution list without
> your
> > permission, but in general please keep responses on-list, as it becomes
> > difficult for anyone else to participate otherwise.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 4:33 PM Engelke, Bill <bill.engelke at ua.edu>
> wrote:
> >> Rob - for file backlogs, the plan is to use Celery,
> >> (http://www.celeryproject.org/) , this works very well for uploading
> >> the large # of files for SatNOGS, and integrates well with Django. I
> >> had been hoping to continue to use that. (I will still research
> >> inotify so I know what it can do as well ) -
> >
> > I highly recommend not adding a dependency on Celery for this particular
> > thing (or, preferably, at all). Celery is a queue for asynchronous
> > processing of heterogeneous tasks, while what we need is a queue for
> serial
> > processing of homogeneous data. We don't want our individual data files
> to
> > end up in different tasks, because that implies a separate connection to
> > upload each file (versus a single TCP stream where each data file is
> sent in
> > serial for better throughput).
> > We want one upload task, and a data queue (not a task queue) sitting in
> > front of it. If SatNOGs uses Celery, it's probably not involved in the
> step
> > you're thinking of, and if I'm wrong about that, then that's a giant,
> > fluorescent red flag saying that we shouldn't be following their lead on
> > this.
> >
> > I'll also point out that Celery is a incredibly complicated library
> > (>7000 lines without counting dependencies) that introduces a ton of
> > dependencies. The Celery FAQ gives lame, half-baked excuses for why this
> > doesn't matter, but it definitely does matter (which I could get into,
> but
> > for now that's outside the scope of this document). The only upside is
> that
> > Celery is actually packaged for Debian, so if we did decide to use it
> (for a
> > purpose to which it's actually suited), those dependencies are somewhat
> more
> > manageable.
> >
> > Why do you think that Django integration is relevant? I wasn't aware
> that
> > there was any interaction between the store-forward mechanism and a web
> page
> > running on the SBC. Even if we want to publish how many stored, unsent
> data
> > files there are (and how much space they're taking up (In memory? On
> disk?)
> > and how much space is left), there are significantly better ways to do
> > that.
> >
> > The first draft of this email had more reasons not to use Celery,
> because it
> > isn't at all suited as a store-forward system. Now that I'm awake and
> > thinking clearly, we don't necessarily want to store every single data
> file
> > to an actual disk in case of power loss before the upload catches up with
> > the backlog (since that's currently a sticking point for the
> ringbuffer), so
> > those points are moot.
> > However, I will say that if we overcome the problems associated with the
> > ringbuffer, then Celery is *definitely* not what we want to use.
> > Note also that inotify still works in a memory-backed tmpfs, so if we
> wanted
> > to write an in-memory data queue first, then turn it into a on-disk
> > ringbuffer later, that would be a trivial change.
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > TangerineSDR mailing list
> > TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org
> > http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of TangerineSDR Digest, Vol 7, Issue 12
> > *******************************************
> >
> >
> > --
> > TangerineSDR mailing list
> > TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org
> > http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
> >
>
> --
> TangerineSDR mailing list
> TangerineSDR at lists.tapr.org
> http://lists.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/tangerinesdr_lists.tapr.org
>
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