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On Mon, 2006-09-25 at 17:08 -0400, Barry Siegfried wrote:
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">["(Skip) K8RRA" <<A HREF="mailto:k8rra@ameritech.net">k8rra@ameritech.net</A>> wrote]:</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> This has been a long-standing question for me...</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> While there is TCP/IP traffic actively being carried, the AX.25 level</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> system carries this invisibly unless you want to read the traced I/O.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> My expectation is that after ARP establishes the AX.25 link for</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> encapsulation of TCP/IP content, that the link would appear in the AX25</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> STATUS command output for one example. In my experience it does not.</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">What is the AX.25 channel IP 'mode' for the channel on which you are</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">trying to view "connection" stats using 'ax25 status'? If it is</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">'datagram' (and not 'virtual circuit'), then there is no "connection"</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">being made between the IP peers on the channel and there is therefore</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">no control block keeping track of one. It is the control blocks of</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">AX.25 "connections" you are seeing when you view 'ax25 status'. No</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">connection, no AX.25 control block, no "status".</FONT>
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Careful Barry, jnos contains numerous(?) TCP/IP based resources - telnet, smtp, and the list goes on...<BR>
Every time IP content is moved over an AX path, multinode comes alive, ARP finds(?) a path, and content is encapsulated.<BR>
Little depends on ACK stuff - but as you point out both AX and IP contain (redundant?) rules for various types of content.<BR>
Is datagram seen (somewhere?) as being superior and thus default? Does the opinion still hold water in 2006?
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">> Also in my experience I'm left wondering if the underlying ax system</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> is performing OK in carrying IP content. Yes - there are IP STATUS</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> reports that are very helpful, but not an AX.25 viewpoint. This</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">> missing link adds to the "magic" of jnos...</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">20 years ago, </FONT>
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YUP - and today TAPR has an active(?) group revisiting related subjects that may effect IP over AX.<BR>
I have the opinion that much can be done to improve our situation - and no time to devote to that exact subject.
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">everyone told us that 'datagram' was good (simply</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">because it reduced channel traffic by eliminating the AX.25 I-frame</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">acknowledgements). Unfortunately, that was a lie. The fact is, an</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">underlying 'datagram' AX.25 "system" is probably not performing very</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">well at all with carrying IP content. For every IP frame that gets</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">lost due to hidden terminals and collisions, the TCP/IP system relies</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">on the TCP retry parameters that are set at each end of the TCP</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">transport circuit and these will normally back off to much greater</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">amounts than an AX.25 t1 (retry) timer will. This is why it is</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">*good* to use 'virtual circuit' mode on channels which are carrying</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">IP. And you will also see your AX.25 "stats" that way..</FONT>.
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Right on - I have grown up in "datagram" mode. Although I'd still like to see "A" is linked to "B" at the AX level I guess...<BR>
I'll begin the experiment with VC - and watch for the differences...
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">> There is another aspect </FONT>>>SNIP<<
<FONT COLOR="#000000">ARP list entries which are dynamic (i.e. determined on the fly) "live"</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">for as long as the 'arp life' entry is set.</FONT>
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HMMM - I have so far missed this parm in my search. Will I need to search .src?<BR>
I also see manual arp table entries - maybe I need to remove "eavesdropping" and add "static"?<BR>
But then many ARPs originate remotely...
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>>SNIP<<<FONT COLOR="#000000">?</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000">Hopefully, I covered what you were looking for.</FONT>
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To a large extent you have Barry. THANKS VERY MUCH.<BR>
As I consider what I've just learned it seems the implementation of IP over AX has made it difficult for AX to optimize what AX does (or might do) well when carrying IP.
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<FONT COLOR="#000000">73, de Barry, K2MF >></FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> o</FONT>
<FONT COLOR="#000000"> <|> Barry Siegfried</FONT>
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73<BR>
de [George (Skip) VerDuin] K8RRA k
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