<div dir="ltr">Gentlemen - an update to my power output measurements on the 20m Raspberry Pi board:<div>The (impedance unknown, alligator clips to BNC) cable between the board and the dummy load was affecting the dummy load impedance. The SWR was showing about 1.55 with a RigExpert!</div><div>I tried an alternate method using the Flex panadapter and sampling with an Alpha Delta coax switch, attenuation about 90 dB. The WSPR board signal was down about 15 dB vs a 5 W signal. So that gives an output of 22 dBm which looks pretty good. I also tried a 0.5 Watt signal and the Flex panadapter looked pretty accurate i.e. down 9-10 dB from the 5 W signal. I think this is a better test!</div><div>Keith - KE4TH</div></div><div id="DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2"><br>
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</table><a href="#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2" width="1" height="1"></a></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 4:10 AM Bryan Corkran <<a href="mailto:bcorky@gmail.com">bcorky@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto">It certainly works the other way round .<div>That is ,Bruces software works fine on the 20m board.</div><div>Of course the web page setting are now 20m and 20 for the power.</div><div><br></div><div>From a WSPR point of view I think the advantage of Bruces 30m board that is no monitor or keyboard is needed after its configured by its own web page at the initial setup.</div><div><br>Bryan, VK3KEZ<br><div dir="ltr"><br>On 26 Mar 2019, at 12:44 pm, Bruce Raymond <<a href="mailto:bruce@raymondtech.net" target="_blank">bruce@raymondtech.net</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div dir="ltr">
Hi Keith,<br>
<br>
Thanks for the antenna analyzer feedback. I'm pleased at the feedback
I've gotten. The display is only a 2x16 LCD, it's not graphical. I hope
that's not a deal breaker.<br>
<br>
I think the 30m WSPR board should work with the same software that the
20m version uses. I haven't tried it, but the 20m and 30m transmitters
are doing the same thing (driving the Pi clock to generate WSPR
symbols). <br>
<br>
I discovered something strange today. I have the 30m WSPR board hooked
up to a Pi 3 with the experimental software loaded. I hooked my scope up
to the output (FFT on scope) and I'm seeing a whole bunch of spectral
garbage several MHz wide below the carrier. It's ~-30 dBc. It goes away
when the transmitter shuts off and comes back when the transmitter turns
on.<br>
<br>
I don't recall seeing this before, so I'm wondering if it's the new
software load causing the problem? I'll go back to the previous software
load and see if it's doing the same thing. If it is the software I'm
suspecting the new version of WsprryPi is the culprit.<br>
<br>
I bought a Pi 3B+ and it showed up today. I'll do some testing on it,
too.<br>
<br>
73 Bruce<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<span>Keith Wilson wrote on 3/25/2019 7:35 PM:</span><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Bruce, I think there would be interest in an antenna
analyzer kit at that price point, especially if it comes with its own
display. I use a RigExpert model that has been very handy, but not very
cheap!<div><br></div><div>For the 20m WSPR board testing, I'm using a
Flex radio / PC as my signal analyzer. I have a sampling arrangement
that reduces the signal by 80-90 dB.<br><div><br></div><div>Will the 30m
WSPR board work with the same WsprryPi software the 20m version uses?</div><div><br><div>73,</div><div>Keith
- KE4TH </div></div></div></div>
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<div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Sat, Mar
23, 2019 at 1:30 PM John, W9DDD <<a href="mailto:w9ddd@tapr.org" target="_blank">w9ddd@tapr.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">I want one of those antenna
analyzer kits.<br>
<br>
John, W9DDD<br>
<br>
On 3/23/2019 2:23 PM, Bruce Raymond wrote:<br>
> Hi Keith,<br>
> <br>
> You've obviously picked the ultimate in terms of getting rid of hum
- <br>
> using a battery (I didn't read the original post carefully enough).
<br>
> You've hit on all of the fixes I can think of.<br>
> <br>
> 120 Hz implies full wave rectification of 60 Hz. Unfortunately, 60
Hz is <br>
> all around us, so that doesn't help much. Another relatively
obvious <br>
> thing is to question the test equipment, although that's a real
long <br>
> shot. I don't see how you get mixing products from a spec an or a
scope. <br>
> I suppose an easy test for that would be to look at a known clean <br>
> signal, like from a signal generator, and look for mixing products.
This <br>
> whole direction seems like a real long shot.<br>
> <br>
> You've got more power coming out of the transmitter than we would <br>
> expect. That probably means that the MOSFET bias voltage is fairly
high <br>
> relative to its threshold voltage, so the bias current and gain are
<br>
> high. It's possible that you're generating much stronger harmonic <br>
> components from the MOSFET than you otherwise would, raising the <br>
> harmonic content of the output.<br>
> <br>
> OTOH, 30 dB down means ~3% of the amplitude relative to the
carrier. I <br>
> doubt this would have any impact on a WSPR receiver's ability to
decode <br>
> the signal.<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> I originally put together a 30m WSPR transmitter kit. I sent ~45 of
the <br>
> kits to John/TAPR. These are sold out. I redesigned the unit to use
<br>
> surface mount parts and had 200 units assembled and tested, and <br>
> delivered to John. There should be plenty of these units available.<br>
> <br>
> 73 Bruce<br>
> <br>
> P.S. I'm working on an idea for an automatic antenna analyzer kit
for <br>
> HF. It will scan a range of frequencies and find the resonant point
and <br>
> VSWR at resonance (actually min VSWR, not necessarily resonance),
and <br>
> 2:1 VSWR bandwidth. This will be a kit with no surface mount parts
and <br>
> no case, but will have mounting holes so you can mount it in your
choice <br>
> of cases. It will probably sell in the ~70 range. Does this sound
like a <br>
> worthwhile project?<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> Keith Wilson wrote on 3/23/2019 1:02 PM:<br>
>> Hi Bruce, and thanks for the generous response!<br>
>><br>
>> My power measurement was made with a good 50 ohm load so maybe I
have <br>
>> a nice hot MOSFET!<br>
>><br>
>> As mentioned in my previous email, the testing was with a USB
power <br>
>> bank battery, and I still have the 120 Hz apparent mixing
products. I <br>
>> tried a separate antenna (my SOTA antenna) so I was not
attached to <br>
>> the station ground. (My station ground is bonded to the
household <br>
>> power ground) So I shouldn't have any way for 60 Hz power to
get into <br>
>> the Pi or USB battery. Still puzzled by the presence of these <br>
>> apparent mixing products. Because they are down 30 dB, I
probably <br>
>> won't get double decodes by receiving stations.<br>
>><br>
>> Last question, TAPR is out of the 30 m boards. Are they still
available?<br>
>><br>
>> 73,<br>
>> Keith - KE4TH<br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Mar 22, 2019 at 9:14 PM Bruce Raymond <<a href="mailto:bruce@raymondtech.net" target="_blank">bruce@raymondtech.net</a> <br>
>> <mailto:<a href="mailto:bruce@raymondtech.net" target="_blank">bruce@raymondtech.net</a>>>
wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Keith,<br>
>><br>
>> I have to agree with Bryan (well, I suppose I don't
*really* have<br>
>> to agree with him, I just want to :-). The 20m transmitter
is<br>
>> Zoltan's design, but very similar to my 30m transmitter.
The final<br>
>> is an MMBF170 powered by 5 volts.<br>
>><br>
>> 1. The power output is approximated by the formula P =
V^2/2*RL.<br>
>> The power supply is roughly 5 volts and assuming a 50 ohm
load<br>
>> (RL), P = 5^2/(2 * 50) = 0.25 watts.<br>
>><br>
>> It's reasonable to expect some losses and the safest way to
list<br>
>> the output power is to say you'll get at least 200 mW.
Also, if<br>
>> the supply voltage is higher than 5 volts then you'll get
more<br>
>> power. It's unlikely that it would be *that* much higher;
it would<br>
>> take 6 volts to give 360 mW. Another possibility is that
your<br>
>> antenna impedance is less than 50 ohms. If your antenna
impedance<br>
>> is, say, 35 ohms, then P = 5^2/(2 * 35) = 360 mW. The last
(and<br>
>> most probable) thought is that the MOSFET in your
transmitter is<br>
>> hotter than typical and gets driven harder, producing more
output.<br>
>> I've played with this on the 30m transmitter and have
gotten power<br>
>> outputs in this range by biasing the MOSFET on more. The
threshold<br>
>> voltage for a MMBF170 MOSFET is between 0.8 and 3.0 volts
with 2.1<br>
>> volts being a typical value. The 20m transmitter has a
voltage<br>
>> divider putting 2.3 volts on the gate. If your MOSFET is
fairly<br>
>> hot then it would be biased on more and likely put out more<br>
>> output. The end result is *yes* the output is real. =>
Watch for<br>
>> the MOSFET getting hot. If it does, you might want to add a
heat<br>
>> sink or change the gate bias resistor (R2) from 1.2K to
something<br>
>> larger, say 1.5K. <=<br>
>><br>
>> 2. Power supplies - in the words of Socrates, suffering an<br>
>> learning are two names for the same experience (I don't
know that<br>
>> Socrates actually said that, but I like to say he did). I
have<br>
>> learned through hard experience that inadequate power
supplies<br>
>> cause a whole bunch of problems, and they're usually very<br>
>> difficult to troubleshoot because the problems are either<br>
>> intermittent or just not something I'd normally suspect of a
power<br>
>> supply. The power supplies normally used for the Raspberry
Pi are<br>
>> usually marginally adequate. I'm very impressed with the
job the<br>
>> designers of the Pi did, but they cheaped out on the power
supply<br>
>> filter on the board (electrolytic capacitor).<br>
>><br>
>> Now we compound the problem with trying to run a
transmitter off<br>
>> of the same power supply in addition to running the Pi.
This<br>
>> doesn't help things. In the beginning I bought a bunch of
cheap<br>
>> 5V/2A power supplies from China that worked with my Pi/30m<br>
>> transmitters. I had a bunch of weird problems, such as the<br>
>> software getting corrupted during normal operation. At
first I<br>
>> thought the problem was cheap SD cards or some problem with
the<br>
>> operating system/software. I now believe the problem was
power<br>
>> supply glitches causing the Pi to get confused and do bad
stuff. I<br>
>> switched to bigger power supplies and my problems
disappeared.<br>
>><br>
>> My recommendation is to get a 5V/3A power supply and make
your<br>
>> measurements again. 120 Hz sidebands sounds like AC
bleeding<br>
>> through the power supply, even if it seems that the power
coming<br>
>> off the supply is clean. It could also be some sort of
interaction<br>
>> between your antenna ground and your power supply ground.
You<br>
>> might try a different power supply and/or an isolation
transformer<br>
>> for a test. This might be similar to hum problems direct<br>
>> conversion receivers have that are associated with
grounding.<br>
>><br>
>> 73 Bruce Raymond/ND8I<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Bryan Corkran wrote on 3/22/2019 4:22 PM:<br>
>>> I had a lot of trouble with power, in the end I bought
the<br>
>>> “official” 2.5 amp adapter and had no trouble after
that.<br>
>>> Keith is right the shield is designed for the V1 board
hence the<br>
>>> little slot in the middle for the display port. I had
problems<br>
>>> with the shield fouling on the heat sink I’d added on a
3b board<br>
>>> so I used a GPIO extender to raise it a small amount.<br>
>>><br>
>>> Bryan, VK3KEZ<br>
>>><br>
>>> On 23 Mar 2019, at 5:36 am, Keith Wilson<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:keith.wilson.pcs@gmail.com" target="_blank">keith.wilson.pcs@gmail.com</a>
<mailto:<a href="mailto:keith.wilson.pcs@gmail.com" target="_blank">keith.wilson.pcs@gmail.com</a>>><br>
>>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>>> I have the 20m WSPR shield working on a new
Raspberry Pi 3 B+. <br>
>>>> I see apparent mixing products in the output, 120
Hz away from<br>
>>>> fundamental, when using a USB power bank to power
the Pi. Since<br>
>>>> these are not coming from a switching power supply,
where are<br>
>>>> they coming from? These products start at about 30
dB below the<br>
>>>> fundamental.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Also, with a scope I measure the voltage output at
12V peak to<br>
>>>> peak into quality 50 ohm dummy load. This is
0.36W, higher than<br>
>>>> the 20dBm (0.10W) specified. Is this too good to
be true?<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Note the shield was not designed for the Raspberry
Pi 3 B+ so it<br>
>>>> can't be fully inserted on the 40 pin GPIO plug,
but seems<br>
>>>> stable enough partially inserted. Getting WSPR
reports from<br>
>>>> across the USA and occasional overseas reports too.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Keith - KE4TH<br>
>>>><br>
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