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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Scott,<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I looked at what you've done so far and
it certainly doesn't look like an "inventory" or a set of
"hyperlink(s) to all the relevant pages", but instead the page
describes itself as:<br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="auto" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px;
margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 47); font-family:
-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI",
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji",
"Segoe UI Emoji"; font-size: 16px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;">This is an overview of the APRS protocol as it
generally is implemented at the beginning of 2022. The goal is
to unwind and connect v1.0, v1.1, proposed v1.2 that is
implemented in practice, and other useful information on<span> </span><a
href="http://aprs.org/" rel="nofollow" style="box-sizing:
border-box; background-color: transparent; color:
var(--color-accent-fg); text-decoration: none;">aprs.org</a><span> </span>in
perparation for future APRS development.</p>
<p dir="auto" style="box-sizing: border-box; margin-top: 0px;
margin-bottom: 16px; color: rgb(36, 41, 47); font-family:
-apple-system, BlinkMacSystemFont, "Segoe UI",
Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif, "Apple Color Emoji",
"Segoe UI Emoji"; font-size: 16px; font-style:
normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps:
normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2;
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; background-color: rgb(255,
255, 255); text-decoration-thickness: initial;
text-decoration-style: initial; text-decoration-color:
initial;">Please comment/make pull requests/add info as we try
to piece together all the documentation. Link to the documents
on aprs.org and work to present the info in a concise way.</p>
</blockquote>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">But it's not even an "overview" in my
opinion when it immediately dives into the details of the OSI
Layers and then the individual bits of the AX.25 addresses.
That's "content" in my definitions.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">I can see you wanting to do something
like this to better understand it yourself, and I did the same
when I was learning. But my collection was just a list of trigger
phrases with a link to where I found the information. I strongly
resisted the temptation to copy/paste information from where I
found it to my own notes because I learned early on that I'd end
up needing one more nugget beyond what I copied. And it certainly
didn't deserve publishing back then.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">But Pete is correct. While your desire
to do something is commendable, we really don't need N people
rushing off to duplicate effort in slightly different fashions and
formats (I've seen at least FOUR formats proposed). I know of at
least one other person that is working to directly extract the
aprs101.pdf information into something that we can eventually edit
and/or re-format. But that person (not me) is striving to NOT
change a single thing, but simply recover the data and the format.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">So, while I know we all want to see our
own pet peeves with APRS resolved in short order (like
documentation), I also agree with Steve (whose e-mails,
incidentally, are still not getting through to me from the list)
that some organization needs to happen first so that parallel
efforts are going in a shared direction and not pulling in
different directions from the center.</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and
Win32
<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">PS. I would be glad to work with the
powers-that-be to figure out why some aprssig e-mails are not
getting through to my inbox. I know it is at least Steve Dimse
that I can only see in the archives, but there may be more. I'd
glad do an exhaustive comparison between the archives and my inbox
if someone needs that much detail.<br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix"><br>
</div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 2/17/2022 1:54 PM, Scott Howard
wrote:<br>
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<blockquote type="cite"
cite="mid:CAAv8cywWcCKo62E8EjFmBVw0GpfHWZJHSX=PsuMS8b5ig_AoLA@mail.gmail.com">
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On Thu, Feb 17, 2022 at 1:25 PM Steve Dimse <<a
href="mailto:steve@dimse.com" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">steve@dimse.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> If you want to prepare for that time when we do start
moving forward and you can offer your services to the APRS group
I think that is great, but I think it is not yet time for public
protocol documentation.<br>
><br>
<br>
Maybe I wasn't clear, but this isn't about making any type of
protocol document nor proposals on how to change the protocol.
From my previous roadmap email, this was #1 (taking inventory).
The text is actually about the high level organization of what
APRS is. It is just an initial effort of trying to figure out
what is even out there. If you read it, I don't even write what
the protocol is but hyperlink to all the relevant pages on the <a
href="http://aprs.org" moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.org</a>
website. (I do put a couple individual "bits" of information
about specific bits that are buried on <a
href="http://aprs.org" moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.org</a> but
important if you are starting from scratch, just to be helpful).
Any details of the protocol are intentionally vague for the very
reasons you pointed out (I just say, "see this link, it's in
this document, etc.")<br>
<br>
The first step to anything will be taking an inventory of what
already exists, regardless of which way people decide to go
forward. So if this is useful, great. If it's not useful, then
don't use it. If this ends up only being for my own benefit, I'm
happy - and I'm happy to share as well if it helps anyone.<br>
<br>
There is also an immediate need for people like me that are
working on developing hardware and embedded firmware that are
struggling to even figure out what we're supposed to do. Over
the past two years, I've figured it out - but it wasn't easy. A
perfect example is the "New n-N Paradigm" page (<a
href="http://aprs.org/fix14439.html" moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://aprs.org/fix14439.html</a>)
where you're hit with a massive wall of text, and nowhere on
that page does it even tell you what the New n-N Paradigm even
is. There are a couple of other examples like that where I've
had to search a ton of documentation, old TNC firmware
documentation, or find nearly hidden links on <a
href="http://aprs.org" moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.org</a> to
get started. So that too is not written like a protocol document
but more as "here's where the info is. But for my own sanity,
here's a summary just so I can keep track of what's going on." I
also included things that are important for people like me but
buried in the site. You can ignore those pieces if you'd like.<br>
<br>
> We have two proposals for groups that will assume managing
the spec. One is a resurrection of the APRS Working Group in the
control of a handful of software authors, the other a group that
represents all stakeholders. How the integration of the spec,
new and old info on <a href="http://aprs.org"
moz-do-not-send="true">aprs.org</a>, and new additions will be
handled depends on which group moves forward. Those
infrastructure decisions ought tp be made by the people that
have to live with them.<br>
<br>
I agree with this, which is why I'm not writing it like a
protocol document and instead writing it like an inventory of
concepts. I agree that we should be thinking high-level, both
organizationally and technically. That is what the document is
attempting.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>-Scott</div>
</div>
<br>
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