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<div>Hi Ron,</div><div><br></div><div>Again, I have to ask about your goal. Experimentation with AX.25 over meteor paths is one thing (I've had a lot of fun with it), but if you are trying to get EmComm messages across long distances then you're better off thinking differently.</div><div><br></div><div>Instead "regular APRS" on 30 meters is an awesome resource. Yes, the band closes for DX from time-to-time (like all bands do), but it has an established network that you can plug into.<br></div><div><br></div><div>If 30 meters is a bad choice, then look at an entirely different resource, such as the ALE (Automatic Link Establishment) system at <a href="http://www.HFLink.com" class="">http://www.HFLink.com</a></div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Ev, W2EV</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div>
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On Sunday, October 15, 2017, 2:45:43 PM EDT, Ron VE8RT <ve8rt@yknwt.ca> wrote:
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<div><div dir="ltr">Thanks for clearing that up. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">I must do some more reading and online research. I'd like to get an<br clear="none">idea of a typical delay to get an APRS message through, and whether<br clear="none">dead times would be tens of minutes or hours.<br clear="none"><br clear="none"> Ron VE8RT<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 12:41:15 -0400<br clear="none">Robert Bruninga <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:bruninga@usna.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">bruninga@usna.edu</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> My understanding is that Meteor Scatter is very specular reflection so it<br clear="none">> is very dependent on exact geometer and frequency. So my guess is that it<br clear="none">> might work for the occasional big burn meteor, but that is not where the<br clear="none">> throughput and reliability of MS is foiund. That is found in taking<br clear="none">> fortuitous advantage of the thousands of smallers meteors during the day.<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> Bob<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 9:51 AM, Ron VE8RT <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ve8rt@yknwt.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ve8rt@yknwt.ca</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> <br clear="none">> > Ooooh! Stupid simple idea just came to mind for emcomm APRS.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Assumption 1, the destination city for the emcomm traffic has<br clear="none">> > working high power FM broadcast stations on air.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Assumption 2, a MS path for the FM station between the originating<br clear="none">> > station and the destination station is also a working path for the 6M<br clear="none">> > traffic.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > If both are true then there is no need for high duty cycle<br clear="none">> > transmissions to determine if a path exists, a separate receiver tuned<br clear="none">> > to the destination FM transmitter could trigger a data exchange.<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > A question though is how small is the MS path footprint, how close<br clear="none">> > does the igate station need to be to the FM station used?<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > Ron VE8RT<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > On Sun, 15 Oct 2017 11:11:21 +0000 (UTC)<br clear="none">> > Ev Tupis <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:w2ev@yahoo.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">w2ev@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > > Hi Ron,If you are interested in specifically using APRS for MS on 6<br clear="none">> > meters, you will need to setup both ends of the path, just as you have<br clear="none">> > done. There is little-to-no 6 meter APRS activity on 6 meters to use as a<br clear="none">> > "base".<br clear="none">> > > Operation requires a transceiver and/or amplifier that is capable of 50%<br clear="none">> > duty cycle (use a Fan!). One station will TX for 15 seconds while the<br clear="none">> > other one RX's. Clearly, you must coordinate TX and RX intervals.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > The more power you transmit, the easier it is to make a contact (a<br clear="none">> > general principle that transcends MS-specific communication).<br clear="none">> > > Some degree of success has been had with as little as 25 watts + 10 dBi<br clear="none">> > antenna (250 watts EIRP) at 6 meters.<br clear="none">> > > Success is largely defined within the "time dimension" (being able to<br clear="none">> > operate for long periods of time). Since everything is computer<br clear="none">> > controlled, it is possible to select a seldom used frequency and let it run<br clear="none">> > over night...taking advantage of the spike in MS ionization that occurs<br clear="none">> > from 3 AM to 9 AM local time. This works well if you are allowed to run<br clear="none">> > under "automatic control" (like an FM repeater does) rather than being<br clear="none">> > forced to have a human operator present at all time.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > FM APRS works well. So does the SSB mode. You can experiment to see<br clear="none">> > which provides a superior experience.<br clear="none">> > > 'hope this has helped as a bit of a primer.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > Best regards,Ev, W2EV<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > On Saturday, October 14, 2017, 8:21:12 PM EDT, Ron VE8RT <<br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" href="mailto:ve8rt@yknwt.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ve8rt@yknwt.ca</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > Hi,<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > I've re-joined the APRS SIG forum.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > And I'm doing a little shopping for 6M gear. I have a FT 726 that<br clear="none">> > > is being shipped to me from the US, Joel at RF Connection offered it to<br clear="none">> > > me for free, along with additional modules, and manuals, for the cost<br clear="none">> > > of shipping. And I have a new in the box Cushcraft 5el yagi thats been<br clear="none">> > > in the back shed since I bought it. With short coax run up the tower I<br clear="none">> > > should be fine without a masthead preamp.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > The National APRS Meteorscatter test that Bob mentioned would be<br clear="none">> > > interesting to look at. Of particular interest is the useable range,<br clear="none">> > > we need a thousand kilometres to get into Edmonton from here, the<br clear="none">> > > closest major city. This part of the Northwest Territories is<br clear="none">> > > relatively flat, the Yukon on the other hand is mountainous and I'd<br clear="none">> > > like to know how well this would work in the mountain valleys.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > Yuuri, VY1YU / JS6SHS, who ran the earlier HF propagation<br clear="none">> > > experiments has been e-mailed to see if he'd be interested in trying a<br clear="none">> > > MS APRS experiment. He's gotten back to me and is interested in<br clear="none">> > > setting up some tests.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > What additional hardware, other than the transceiver and antenna,<br clear="none">> > > should I have to try this? I've been tinkering with Arduinos, Cory had<br clear="none">> > > mentioned earlier, but I'm not sure where they fit in.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > If there is anything that I need to buy out of the US I'd like to<br clear="none">> > > get it ordered and on it's way to Joel at RF Connection to have it<br clear="none">> > > included in the package he's sending me.<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > Thanks for your help!<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > Ron VE8RT (30M WSPR as VE8TEA)<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > On Thu, 12 Oct 2017 16:45:45 -0400<br clear="none">> > > Cory Vickruck <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:crvickru@lakeheadu.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">crvickru@lakeheadu.ca</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > > Also I would be happy to setup an igate for him to test. I think I<br clear="none">> > might be<br clear="none">> > > > just out of range however. I am in thunder bay Ontario<br clear="none">> > > ><br clear="none">> > > ><br clear="none">> > > > On Oct 12, 2017 4:31 PM, "Cory Vickruck" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:crvickru@lakeheadu.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">crvickru@lakeheadu.ca</a>><br clear="none">> > wrote:<br clear="none">> > > ><br clear="none">> > > > > After reading a bit more about the topic I am interested in trying<br clear="none">> > it out.<br clear="none">> > > > > How much power would be enough for reliable packets at 6m APRS?<br clear="none">> > > > ><br clear="none">> > > > ><br clear="none">> > > > > On Oct 12, 2017 2:36 PM, "Cory Vickruck" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:crvickru@lakeheadu.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">crvickru@lakeheadu.ca</a>><br clear="none">> > wrote:<br clear="none">> > > > ><br clear="none">> > > > >> Could PSK-31 be a option? Maybe fsq would be a good option as it<br clear="none">> > can be<br clear="none">> > > > >> interfaced with an Arduino.<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> On Oct 12, 2017 2:12 PM, "Robert Bruninga" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:bruninga@usna.edu" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">bruninga@usna.edu</a>><br clear="none">> > wrote:<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> We have had great success with APRS Meteor Scatter on 6 meters, but<br clear="none">> > I have<br clear="none">> > > > >> not done it since 1996? Maybe its time for some new blood. Let me<br clear="none">> > see if<br clear="none">> > > > >> I can find the results of our first National APRS Meteroscatter<br clear="none">> > test.<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> Everyone, meet Ron, VE8RT who needs to communicate probably by APRS<br clear="none">> > using<br clear="none">> > > > >> Meteorscatter from the great Northwest... He currently is not on<br clear="none">> > the<br clear="none">> > > > >> APRSSIG and so reply here so we can see the interest, and I will<br clear="none">> > forward<br clear="none">> > > > >> any useful replies to him. Bob, WB4aPR<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> -----Original Message-----<br clear="none">> > > > >> From: Ron VE8RT [<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ve8rt@yknwt.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ve8rt@yknwt.ca</a>]<br clear="none">> > > > >> Subject: 6M APRS via meteor scatter forum?<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> Hi Bob,<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> I'm looking for a forum, if there is one, on meteor scatter and<br clear="none">> > APRS.<br clear="none">> > > > >> I'm one of less than a score of active amateur radio operators here<br clear="none">> > in the<br clear="none">> > > > >> Northwest Territories of Canada. The majority of amateur radio<br clear="none">> > activity<br clear="none">> > > > >> is here in Yellowknife (the capital), with distances of over a<br clear="none">> > thousand<br clear="none">> > > > >> kilometres seperating some of us. HF propagation is generally poor<br clear="none">> > and<br clear="none">> > > > >> unreliable, so I'm looking into 6M meteor scatter APRS or other<br clear="none">> > digital<br clear="none">> > > > >> modes for emergency communications.<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> I had joined the TAPR APRS SIG forum for a few days, having<br clear="none">> > posted my<br clear="none">> > > > >> introduction and my interest in meteor scatter APRS, but it didn't<br clear="none">> > > > >> generate any replies (so I unsubscribed).<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> Would you have any suggestions?<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> Thanks,<br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >> Ron VE8RT in DP22<br clear="none">> > > > >> --<br clear="none">> > > > >> Ron VE8RT <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ve8rt@yknwt.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ve8rt@yknwt.ca</a>><br clear="none">> > > > >> _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> > > > >> aprssig mailing list<br clear="none">> > > > >> <a shape="rect" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br clear="none">> > > > >> <a shape="rect" href="http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><div class="ydp7bf7f0efyqt1647405692" id="ydp7bf7f0efyqtfd46173"><br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > > > >><br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> > > --<br clear="none">> > > Ron VE8RT <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ve8rt@yknwt.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ve8rt@yknwt.ca</a>><br clear="none">> > > _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> > > aprssig mailing list<br clear="none">> > > <a shape="rect" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br clear="none">> > > <a shape="rect" href="http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><br clear="none">> > ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none">> > --<br clear="none">> > Ron VE8RT <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ve8rt@yknwt.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ve8rt@yknwt.ca</a>><br clear="none">> > _______________________________________________<br clear="none">> > aprssig mailing list<br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br clear="none">> > <a shape="rect" href="http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><br clear="none">> ><br clear="none"><br clear="none"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none">Ron VE8RT <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ve8rt@yknwt.ca" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ve8rt@yknwt.ca</a>><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">aprssig mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><br clear="none"></div></div></div>
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