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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">APRS goal is situational awareness. Digis have a code field for identifying over 36 flavors of Digi. If a digi performs differently than others, then we should identify that difference.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">There is nothing worse than inconsistent results from things that look the same. Hence, if a viscous digipeater is going to do something unexpectedly to a users packet then the user deserves the opportunity to have that information available to him.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Just my 2 cents.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bob, Wb4APR</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> aprssig [mailto:<a href="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org">aprssig-bounces@tapr.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Kenneth Finnegan<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, October 18, 2016 1:25 PM<br><b>To:</b> TAPR APRS Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [aprssig] Digipeater Symbol Overlays</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"> </p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 8:08 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) <<a href="mailto:ldeffenb@homeside.to" target="_blank">ldeffenb@homeside.to</a>> wrote:</p></div><div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I'm not a big fan of the concept, but since we're in the area and people are using them, how about viscous digipeaters?</p></div></div></blockquote></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I'd make the same argument for viscous digipeaters as I will for path trapping (#L) digipeaters. I don't think it's a defining enough characteristic to make people have to learn a new digipeater symbol. </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I don't understand what we're expecting people to do with the information about a digipeater being a limited or viscous digipeater. When I'm looking at a map of digipeaters, I'm really only interested in knowing which ones are fill-in (1#) and which one's aren't. How do we expect users to react differently to a V# digipeater on the map than a 1# digipeater?</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Oct 18, 2016 at 6:25 AM, Robert Bruninga <<a href="mailto:bruninga@usna.edu" target="_blank">bruninga@usna.edu</a>> wrote:</p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I agree that L and P are mostly obsolete, but we need them in the table because it will take decades before some people change their symbol.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">So let's think about this from a forward build view-point. If we are waiting decades for people to stop using L and P, what is keeping new digipeaters from being set up using these symbols?</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Imagine a new digi operator pulls up symbols-new and scrolls through the list looking for which symbol to use. He's configuring his digipeater to trap >2 hop paths, so L seems like the right choice. What did he do wrong here? L is listed as the WIDEn-N digi with path trap, and that's what he's setting up.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I wouldn't even list them with a note about being obsolete. If someone is still running a P# or L# digipeater and local users are constantly asking them what that symbol even means, it's all the more pressure for them to consider updating their 10 year old digipeater config.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I did add #W as a new one to cover the generic WIDEn-N, SSn-N with path limiting as the overall digi we use today if anyone wants to start using it.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Except that in several other places on your website you list #W as "OBSOLETE RELAY,WIDE digipeater". </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">If you want us to use W# for WIDEn-N,SSn-N,path trap digipeaters, what is the difference from S#? I thought we were deprecating L# because we wanted all digipeaters to trap ridiculous paths, so S# would implicitly include path limiting for WIDEn-N aliases.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I'll go back to my original suggestion. I think the overlay set should be this:</p></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"> /# - Generic WIDEn-N digipeater</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"> 1# - WIDE1-1/direct-only digipeater</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"> A# - Alternate input (i.e. 144.990MHz) digipeater</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"> I# - I-gate equipped digipeater</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"> S# - SSn-N local net alias digipeater</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.5pt"> X# - eXperimental digipeater</span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">1#, /#, and S# cover the three tiers of traditional stand-alone digipeaters (WIDE1-1, WIDEn-N, SSn-N and WIDEn-N)</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">A# digipeaters tell you that alt-input trackers are usable here.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I# tells you that traffic meant only for the Internet doesn't need to be digipeated</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">X# tells you that this digipeater is short-lived and shouldn't be planned on sticking around.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">I think that should be it (I might even argue that SSn-N digis should use /# and advertise their local alias groups otherwise, taking the list down to five). We shouldn't be expecting users to memorize ten different overlay codes for when they're looking at a map of digipeaters. Lets keep the symbol set for this infrastructure simple.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">If you want to specifically advertise digipeaters as being path traps, being on emergency power, etc, define fields to add to the '<' station capabilities packet. That is far and away more expressive than trying to encode four different optional capabilities in the single overlay character.</p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br clear="all"></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">--<br>Kenneth Finnegan<br><a href="http://blog.thelifeofkenneth.com/" target="_blank">http://blog.thelifeofkenneth.com/</a></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"> </p></div></div></div></div></body></html>