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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-AU link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Guys,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>19k2 is there – the modules are $40<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'>Use them <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><a name="_MailEndCompose"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;mso-fareast-language:EN-US'><o:p> </o:p></span></a></p><span style='mso-bookmark:_MailEndCompose'></span><p class=MsoNormal><b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span lang=EN-US style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> aprssig [mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Bruninga via aprssig<br><b>Sent:</b> Monday, 13 June 2016 3:13 AM<br><b>To:</b> TAPR APRS Mailing List <aprssig@tapr.org><br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [aprssig] 9600 Baud Packet Network?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>> I once tried... a 320x240 SSTV-like image over packet.<br>>... it took over 15 minutes to send one image.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Agreed, but at 9600 baud it might take only 3 minutes.<br><br>> Classic packet is dead - the infrastructure isn't there anymore....<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>But we also never upped it to 9600 baud either. As we get more and more dependent on our smart phones, and we all know we need a backup, why dont we think about what we could do? And can we somehow use our smartphones as an end terminal for the display?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>People know how to text on their phone. Is it possible to have an app that looks similar on the phone but can talk to a serial port and a packet network as a backup?<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>We all have 9600 baud radios and TNC's now and they have little benefit for APRS, so we should figure out something to do with them and the level 4 network at least between emergency operations centers might be worthwhile.<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>We seem to have lots of people wanting to write code on their favorite little $35 processor, why not level 4 code to use all these radios in KISS mode to build a 9600 baud backbone network between EOC's at least.<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>It is sure better than a bunch of old fuds reading ARL radio grams and spelling every word during a comex.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'>Bob, WB4APR<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Sun, Jun 12, 2016 at 8:53 AM, Stephen H. Smith <<a href="mailto:wa8lmf2@aol.com" target="_blank">wa8lmf2@aol.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>On 6/12/2016 3:57 AM, Robert Bruninga via aprssig wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>We are not using our 9600 Baud Radios well!<br><br>What kind of external processor could we plug into the back of a 9600 baud APRS<br>radio with built-in TNC to make it function as a NETROM node?<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Not very practical. The internal TNC would have to operate in KISS mode to allow an external processor get at the raw packets. Given the notorious unreliability of the KISS mode in many APRS radios, this is dubious at best.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><br>What could we do with it? All I remember about NETROMS were something like this:<br>1) You could connect to any node and see what it could connect to.<br>2) Then you could connect to anyone in the net<br>3) Such as their PBBS<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Except for a few DX packet clusters, There is virtually no packet infrastructure left. Conventional connected packet (and BBS systems) were killed off by Internet email in the 1990s, cellular text messaging in the 2000s, and full internet access on cell phones in the late 2000s/early 2010s.<br><br>Remember, it was all those abandoned TNCs, left over when the connected packet era of the '80s died, that were the foundation of APRS........<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>4) where you could see their message list<br>5) And then read any of their messages.<br><br>6) Could a message be a FILE???<br>7) And a file could be a small picture?<br><br>8) And JPG cameras now cost peanuts<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>These cheap cameras are USB-based and require massive software stacks provided by real operating systems like Windows, Linux, iOS or Android. Not something you are going to run on a PIC-class controller.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>9) THey could plug into the same extrnal processor!<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Which is now going to have to be essentially a "real" PC with a real operating system.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>10) Now I can see what you are seeing!<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Even a small JPG image file is HUGE (i.e. 10s or 100s of K) compared to the bare ASCII text files of the packet messaging heydays that were at most a few hundred bytes.<br><br>I once tried transferring a 320x240 SSTV-like image over packet. With all the back and forth transmit-ack-transmit-ack hand-shaking on each few hundred bytes, it took over 15 minutes to send one image. And that was direct radio-to-radio without the overhead of digipeaters, nodes, etc.<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal><br>We have the radios, we have the sites,<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>What sites???<br><br><o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal>but we are not using our 9600 baud<br>capabilties at all.<br><br>I'm thinking it does need to be seamless with the existing NETROM, THENET, KA<br>node archetecture for the long haul links so we can use a lot of our existing<br>stuff.<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>What "existing stuff". Classic packet is dead - the infrastructure isn't there anymore....<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm'><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br>Hummh...<br>Bob, WB4APR<o:p></o:p></p></blockquote><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>