<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:Courier New, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9664">There's a perfect world, and a de facto world. I've seen this argument play out in so many places, I've stopped counting.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9665"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9666">Here's two non-APRS examples:</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9690"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9667">1. [A hobby contest sponsor] creates a 3-band VHF category for 6m, 2, and 70cm...because that is what equipment manufacturers sell...further exacerbating the lack of 222 MHz gear.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9685"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9686">2. [A hobby contest sponsor] creates a "Limited Multioperator" category...where the "limit" is the number of bands, not the number of operators. Meanwhile, they have a spectrum defense fund to defend the spectrum that is not being used because people flock to L/MO.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9758"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9759">It isn't a perfect world, but it's the one that we have. ;-)</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9884"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9973">Back to APRS...it comes down to what is leading the charge. Clearly, it is now the equipment manufacturer due to nothing more than their impact. It is a natural evolution.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9974"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9975"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9832"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9687"><span></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9688" class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div style="display: block;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9763" class="yahoo_quoted"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9762" style="font-family: Courier New, courier, monaco, monospace, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9761" style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;"> <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1458044656103_9760" dir="ltr"> <font face="Arial" size="2"> <hr size="1"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Bob Burns W9BU via aprssig <aprssig@tapr.org><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' <aprssig@tapr.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, March 15, 2016 6:12 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [aprssig] APRS SPEC Addendum 1.2 Proposals (compressed items & objects)<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container"><br><div id="yiv5334636495"><style>#yiv5334636495 #yiv5334636495 --
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#yiv5334636495 </style><div><div class="yiv5334636495WordSection1"><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Bob, this seems to be a “cart before the horse” problem.</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">The APRS specification should drive the equipment used in APRS, not the other way around. Granted, an installed base of 10,000 APRS devices is a concern. But, there has to be a better reason to deprecate part of the spec than just lack of support by one type of APRS client.</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Also, the TM-D700 has been out of production about 9 years, I believe. While many of them may still be in use, they will gradually disappear from active use in APRS.</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Bob…</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div style="border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;"><div class="yiv5334636495yqt1416024025" id="yiv5334636495yqt60008"><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><b><font face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Calibri" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> aprssig [mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org] <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Robert Bruninga via aprssig<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Monday, March 14, 2016 8:36 PM<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> TAPR APRS Mailing List <aprssig@tapr.org><br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [aprssig] APRS SPEC Addendum 1.2 Proposals (compressed items & objects)</span></font></div></div></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">The reason the compressed objects were depricated is because there were about ten thousand APRS radios (D700’s) out there that could not decode them. (Problem is, I lost my notes on what does and does not work… argh!)</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">But, if the idea is to have consistent performance and end-to-end communication in a tactical real-time network, it did not seem to be a good idea to have a built-in, known failure mode in a standard.</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Also, the compressed format has no more precision than a regular object. Its still to the nearest 60 feet. Only the !DAO! protocol has increased precision.</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">If anyone has the exact list of what the D700’s or any other radio for that matter, do or do not decode, then maybe it is time to re-look at this.</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Bob, WB4APR</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Calibri" color="#1f497d" size="2"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></font></b><font face="Tahoma" size="2"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> aprssig [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org">aprssig-bounces@tapr.org</a>] <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">On Behalf Of </span></b>Curt Mills via aprssig<br clear="none"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> [aprssig] APRS SPEC Addendum 1.2 Proposals</span></font></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span></font></div><div><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Regarding this web page:<font color="#1f497d"><span style="color:#1F497D;"> </span></font> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.aprs.org/aprs12.html">http://www.aprs.org/aprs12.html</a><br clear="none">"Formats no longer recommended: Compressed-Objects, ITEM Format, Raw Weather Formats,"</span></font></div></div></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I'd like to put in my thumbs-up for both Compressed Objects, and both Compressed and Non-compressed Items.</span></font></div></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">We've implemented these in Xastir and I find them of use in SAR. Compressed format gives much better precision in placing and/or recovering objects, precision you cannot get with non-compressed APRS formats. Items are useful for placing positions when you have no timestamp, as well as providing a shorter packet than APRS Object format.</span></font></div></div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">In short, I see no advantage to removing formats that are currently used to good effect and already implemented in APRS programs.<br clear="all"><br clear="none">-- </span></font></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div class="yiv5334636495MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman" size="3"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Curt, WE7U<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://wetnet.net/~we7u">http://wetnet.net/~we7u</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.sarguydigital.com/">http://www.sarguydigital.com</a></span></font></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br><div class="yqt1416024025" id="yqt44918">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">aprssig mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig" target="_blank">http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </div></div></body></html>