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Bob:<br>
Where did you get solar for 70 cents per watt?<br>
Does that include inverters??<br>
thanks & 73,<br>
Jim<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wb4gcs@amsat.org">wb4gcs@amsat.org</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 9/8/2015 4:00 PM, Robert Bruninga
via aprssig wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New";color:#1f497d">>
…</span><span style="font-family:"Courier
New";color:black">I recently purchased an 07 Prius... </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New";color:#1f497d">>
</span><span style="font-family:"Courier
New";color:black">Where did you find the "form fitting"
solar cells for yours?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I
composed the car roof rom 18 smaller 12W panels (back in
2007). But, it makes no sense now. Those small panels
still cost about $10/W whereas 300W panels for my house roof
now cost less than $0.70/w and I have 100 times more area
than the roof of the car. So the value on the car is only
0.001 times the value on the roof of the house.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Besides
the typical car spends 21 hours or more a day parked mostly
at home or work. So just plugging into a 120v outlet while
parked can maintain more than 80 miles a day. Since my
typical daily use is only 30 miles I have zero “range
anxiety” and never have to go anywhere to charge other than
at home, at night. See:</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html">http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html</a></a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bob</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black"> </span></p>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2641">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2640">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2718">
<div class="MsoNormal"
style="text-align:center;background:white"
align="center"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">
Robert Bruninga via aprssig <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a></a>><br>
<b>To:</b> TAPR APRS Mailing List <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a></a>>
<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [aprssig] Solar House Symbol
& Solar ecstasy!</span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2639">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
<div id="yiv4067276621">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2638">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2637">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2636">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2635">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2634">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2633">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2632">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2631">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2630">
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">>
How much did your present solar
power set up cost? <br>
<br>
</span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Interestingly,
Ive never really added it up. I
just keep adding to it. But
I'll try.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">First
3 kW were $3/watt, next 6 kW were
2.50/W, next 3 kW were $1/W and
last 6 kW were $0.80/W Plus about
$6k for inverters for a total of
about $38k. Less the 30% federal
tax credit and $1k from the state
for about for a total of about
$26k.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">But
that eliminates the $6000 per year I
was paying in electricity and heating
oil. So, Since I started in 2010, it
has already almost paid for itself and
the rest of my life is free energy.<br>
<br>
WARNING: This was of course was a DIY
project, so my costs are less than
half of a contractor system (Typically
$3.50/watt). And full of painful
delays just getting "round-to-it"...
I finally had to hire a licensed
electrician ($500) and re-do some
wiring before I could grid tie. ANd
you have to be legally grid-tied or
solar is uneconomical.<br>
<br>
> </span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">How
do you manage backup power.</span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Same
as I have always done. Either fire up
the $250 generator with a $6 can of gas
or more recently, just plug the house
into the Prius.</span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">See
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aprs.org/APRS-SPHEV.html"
target="_blank">http://aprs.org/APRS-SPHEV.html</a></span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">But
to my memory, in the 5 years since I began
my solar conversion, by the time I get off
the couch and find the cords and flip all
the switches, and "get around to it", the
power has always come back on (Average
outage around here is 4 hours a year)...<br>
<br>
> what have you found to be maintenance
expense? </span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Biggest
expense is just getting up and getting out of
bed on weekends and getting around to it. I
have had three problems, all due to my
sloppiness and short cuts that would not occur
in a contractor system. Bad connections,
shorted panel due to flooding and one bad
panel (out of 80). I also installed my ground
mount panels too low so when we get a bad
snow, all the snow slides off into a pile on
the ground in front of it, and I have to go
out with a shovel and remove the bottom few
feet. This would not be a problem if I had
mounted them the recommended 28" off the
ground instead of my 12"...</span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">>
</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Surely
you don't mean to imply that you heat your
home with solar as well.</span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Yep!
I got rid of the oil burning system and
switched to a heatpump. That changed my
$3000 a year heating oil bill to about
$1500 more electricity, but I made up for
that by doubling the size of my arrays. I
also swapped out the electric water heater
with a heatpump water heater reducing my
$500/year of water heating cost to $200.
And of course all my 55 light bulbs in the
house are CFL's and no incandescents
further saving $2500 over the life of the
bulbs.</span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The
electric car costs about 1/3rd to operate
compared to gasoline. My average 40 miles a
day car use only uses about $50/mo of
electricity, easily made up with just
another 6 panels.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">It
was a big investment for sure, but it
ELIMINATED the $6,000 per year of utility and
oil and gasoline costs. What a fantastic
return on investment!</span></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I
just love getting those $4 electric bills.
The actual minimum charge is $8/mo, but then
they subtract the credits due to having an
AC and hot-water utility control switch and
the net is about $3 or $4 a month..</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Its
like being debt free, but in this case, it
is Utility free! (though you MUST remain
connected to the grid because that is the
only economical place to store the solar
power for when I need it later).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Don't
even think of whole-house batteries or
energy storage. That wastes $2 out of every
$3 invested and is totally uneconomical
(assuming, of course, you have access to the
grid).</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Grid-tied
Solar power is ECONOMICAL power and has
nothing to do with Emergency poewr. Solve
that the way you already do.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Please
see <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aprs.org/off-grid-NOT.html"
target="_blank">http://aprs.org/off-grid-NOT.html</a></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Bob,
WB4APR</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yiv4067276621yqt11657">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">On
Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Robert
Bruninga <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:bruninga@usna.edu"
target="_blank">bruninga@usna.edu</a>>
wrote:</span></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Now
that all my energy
comes from solar,
I finally
remembered to
change my APRS
symbol to Home
Solar (House with
S overlay).
ALthough I dont
think any APRS
clients have
adopted all the
new potential
symbols, at least
APRS is ready when
they do.<br>
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt">http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt</a></a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Solar
is Amazing! Its
cheaper than the
Utility, its clean
and it returns from
10 to 20% return on
investment for life.
And that return only
goes up as the cost
of energy rises. You
cannot find a better
risk free investment
anywhere.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I
was just out watching
my electric meter spin
backwards on this nice
sunny holiday and
wanted to remind
people to think about
tomorrow.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Remember,
if you have sun on your
roof, are going to live
there for a long time,
and are not going solar,
what are you thinking?
Sooner or later you are
going to go solar, it
just makes no economic
sense not to. So why
keep paying thousands of
dollars a year to a
utility when you could
be paying near zero for
the rest of your life
starting now.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">And
the one deadline that is
looming is the end of the
30% federal incentives
next year (2016). Why
wait till then and then
maybe mis-out because all
the proctrastinators wait
too and then the
installers are so over
loaded you miss it?</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The
things that are certain in
life are death... taxes....
and utilities. But finally
you can do something about
the last two. Get 30%
refund on our taxes AND
eliminate your utilities and
energy costs for life.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">see
my page: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://aprs.org/solar-now.html"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://aprs.org/solar-now.html">http://aprs.org/solar-now.html</a></a></span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">If
you don't have sun, you can at
least sign up with most
utilities for wind power and
soon you can buy into commuinty
solarfarms in many states.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">My
point. Solar costs about half of
what you will pay for utilities
for the next 20 years (at today's
rate), more like a third if
utility rates continue to go up.
So why keep paying every month for
the rest of your life, or even one
more year, when you could go solar
and have free energy for life?</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I'm
just glad I have lived long enough
to see solar not only equal the
utility in cost (2010) but to now be
cheaper than coal!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">ANother
way to look at utilities is that its
like being permanently in debt, but
even worse, because you never pay it
off! You just keep paying for
ever. Makes no sense (if you have a
sunny roof) .</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I
used to spend $2400 a year for
electricity, $3000 a year for
heating oil (old leaky house) and
$1500 a year for gasoline. Now I
switched to a heatpump (had to
double my solar) and drive an
Electric car and my utility electric
bill is about $4 a month (the
minimum account charge), And the
only fossil fuel we burn anymore is
about $500 a year for the gas for
the prius when we go out of <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://town.to/"
target="_blank">town.to</a> visit
gramma.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">That's
$6400 a year savings for the rest of
my life. And my contrubution to
fossil fuel burning is down
10-to-1. ANd... it is cheaper than
doing nothing!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Don't
wait. Even my first array I bought
in 2010 at 4 times today's price has
already paid for iself, so "waiting"
for costs to go down gains nothing,
but just more money lost every month
going down the utility rat-hole.
And wait too long and miss the 30%
federal tax credit (going down to
10% in 2016) and you just threw
away another 20% of your potential
savings for life.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Its
a whole new world. Glad to be part
of it!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">YOUR
state and your mileage may vary.
But get some quotes, and do the
math!</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Bob,
WB4APR</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p>
<div id="yqt64409">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">_______________________________________________<br>
aprssig mailing list<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig"
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<pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig">http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a>
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