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--></style></head><body lang="EN-US" link="blue" vlink="purple"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:#1f497d">> …</span><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">I recently purchased an 07 Prius... </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:#1f497d">> </span><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black">Where did you find the "form fitting" solar cells for yours?</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I composed the car roof rom 18 smaller 12W panels (back in 2007). But, it makes no sense now. Those small panels still cost about $10/W whereas 300W panels for my house roof now cost less than $0.70/w and I have 100 times more area than the roof of the car. So the value on the car is only 0.001 times the value on the roof of the house.</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Besides the typical car spends 21 hours or more a day parked mostly at home or work. So just plugging into a 120v outlet while parked can maintain more than 80 miles a day. Since my typical daily use is only 30 miles I have zero “range anxiety” and never have to go anywhere to charge other than at home, at night. See:</span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><a href="http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html">http://aprs.org/EV-misinformation.html</a></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Bob</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Courier New";color:black"> </span></p><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2641"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2640"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2718"><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"><hr size="1" width="100%" align="center"></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> Robert Bruninga via aprssig <<a href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a>><br><b>To:</b> TAPR APRS Mailing List <<a href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a>> <br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [aprssig] Solar House Symbol & Solar ecstasy!</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2639"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p><div id="yiv4067276621"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2638"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2637"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2636"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2635"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2634"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2633"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2632"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2631"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441728212385_2630"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">> How much did your present solar power set up cost? <br><br></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Interestingly, Ive never really added it up. I just keep adding to it. But I'll try.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">First 3 kW were $3/watt, next 6 kW were 2.50/W, next 3 kW were $1/W and last 6 kW were $0.80/W Plus about $6k for inverters for a total of about $38k. Less the 30% federal tax credit and $1k from the state for about for a total of about $26k.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">But that eliminates the $6000 per year I was paying in electricity and heating oil. So, Since I started in 2010, it has already almost paid for itself and the rest of my life is free energy.<br><br>WARNING: This was of course was a DIY project, so my costs are less than half of a contractor system (Typically $3.50/watt). And full of painful delays just getting "round-to-it"... I finally had to hire a licensed electrician ($500) and re-do some wiring before I could grid tie. ANd you have to be legally grid-tied or solar is uneconomical.<br><br>> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">How do you manage backup power.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Same as I have always done. Either fire up the $250 generator with a $6 can of gas or more recently, just plug the house into the Prius.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">See <a href="http://aprs.org/APRS-SPHEV.html" target="_blank">http://aprs.org/APRS-SPHEV.html</a></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">But to my memory, in the 5 years since I began my solar conversion, by the time I get off the couch and find the cords and flip all the switches, and "get around to it", the power has always come back on (Average outage around here is 4 hours a year)...<br><br>> what have you found to be maintenance expense? </span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Biggest expense is just getting up and getting out of bed on weekends and getting around to it. I have had three problems, all due to my sloppiness and short cuts that would not occur in a contractor system. Bad connections, shorted panel due to flooding and one bad panel (out of 80). I also installed my ground mount panels too low so when we get a bad snow, all the snow slides off into a pile on the ground in front of it, and I have to go out with a shovel and remove the bottom few feet. This would not be a problem if I had mounted them the recommended 28" off the ground instead of my 12"...</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">> </span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Surely you don't mean to imply that you heat your home with solar as well.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">Yep! I got rid of the oil burning system and switched to a heatpump. That changed my $3000 a year heating oil bill to about $1500 more electricity, but I made up for that by doubling the size of my arrays. I also swapped out the electric water heater with a heatpump water heater reducing my $500/year of water heating cost to $200. And of course all my 55 light bulbs in the house are CFL's and no incandescents further saving $2500 over the life of the bulbs.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The electric car costs about 1/3rd to operate compared to gasoline. My average 40 miles a day car use only uses about $50/mo of electricity, easily made up with just another 6 panels.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">It was a big investment for sure, but it ELIMINATED the $6,000 per year of utility and oil and gasoline costs. What a fantastic return on investment!</span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I just love getting those $4 electric bills. The actual minimum charge is $8/mo, but then they subtract the credits due to having an AC and hot-water utility control switch and the net is about $3 or $4 a month..</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Its like being debt free, but in this case, it is Utility free! (though you MUST remain connected to the grid because that is the only economical place to store the solar power for when I need it later).</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Don't even think of whole-house batteries or energy storage. That wastes $2 out of every $3 invested and is totally uneconomical (assuming, of course, you have access to the grid).</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Grid-tied Solar power is ECONOMICAL power and has nothing to do with Emergency poewr. Solve that the way you already do.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Please see <a href="http://aprs.org/off-grid-NOT.html" target="_blank">http://aprs.org/off-grid-NOT.html</a></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Bob, WB4APR</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div><div id="yiv4067276621yqt11657"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">On Mon, Sep 7, 2015 at 3:48 PM, Robert Bruninga <<a href="mailto:bruninga@usna.edu" target="_blank">bruninga@usna.edu</a>> wrote:</span></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Now that all my energy comes from solar, I finally remembered to change my APRS symbol to Home Solar (House with S overlay). ALthough I dont think any APRS clients have adopted all the new potential symbols, at least APRS is ready when they do.<br><a href="http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt" target="_blank">http://aprs.org/symbols/symbols-new.txt</a></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Solar is Amazing! Its cheaper than the Utility, its clean and it returns from 10 to 20% return on investment for life. And that return only goes up as the cost of energy rises. You cannot find a better risk free investment anywhere.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I was just out watching my electric meter spin backwards on this nice sunny holiday and wanted to remind people to think about tomorrow.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Remember, if you have sun on your roof, are going to live there for a long time, and are not going solar, what are you thinking? Sooner or later you are going to go solar, it just makes no economic sense not to. So why keep paying thousands of dollars a year to a utility when you could be paying near zero for the rest of your life starting now.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">And the one deadline that is looming is the end of the 30% federal incentives next year (2016). Why wait till then and then maybe mis-out because all the proctrastinators wait too and then the installers are so over loaded you miss it?</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">The things that are certain in life are death... taxes.... and utilities. But finally you can do something about the last two. Get 30% refund on our taxes AND eliminate your utilities and energy costs for life.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">see my page: <a href="http://aprs.org/solar-now.html" target="_blank">http://aprs.org/solar-now.html</a></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">If you don't have sun, you can at least sign up with most utilities for wind power and soon you can buy into commuinty solarfarms in many states.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">My point. Solar costs about half of what you will pay for utilities for the next 20 years (at today's rate), more like a third if utility rates continue to go up. So why keep paying every month for the rest of your life, or even one more year, when you could go solar and have free energy for life?</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I'm just glad I have lived long enough to see solar not only equal the utility in cost (2010) but to now be cheaper than coal!</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">ANother way to look at utilities is that its like being permanently in debt, but even worse, because you never pay it off! You just keep paying for ever. Makes no sense (if you have a sunny roof) .</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">I used to spend $2400 a year for electricity, $3000 a year for heating oil (old leaky house) and $1500 a year for gasoline. Now I switched to a heatpump (had to double my solar) and drive an Electric car and my utility electric bill is about $4 a month (the minimum account charge), And the only fossil fuel we burn anymore is about $500 a year for the gas for the prius when we go out of <a href="http://town.to/" target="_blank">town.to</a> visit gramma.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">That's $6400 a year savings for the rest of my life. And my contrubution to fossil fuel burning is down 10-to-1. ANd... it is cheaper than doing nothing!</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Don't wait. Even my first array I bought in 2010 at 4 times today's price has already paid for iself, so "waiting" for costs to go down gains nothing, but just more money lost every month going down the utility rat-hole. And wait too long and miss the 30% federal tax credit (going down to 10% in 2016) and you just threw away another 20% of your potential savings for life.</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Its a whole new world. Glad to be part of it!</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">YOUR state and your mileage may vary. But get some quotes, and do the math!</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">Bob, WB4APR</span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p><div id="yqt64409"><p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black">_______________________________________________<br>aprssig mailing list<br><a href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br><a href="http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig" target="_blank">http://www.tapr.org/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:black"> </span></p></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>