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Finally some reasonable discussions on this. So I admit not knowing
much about the Yaesu Moto thing, but as already stated the Codecs
for both the Yaesu method and the Icom method are both proprietary.
So the price challenge or "tax" is going to exist for both systems.
<br>
<br>
What's next? Kenwood, TenTec and Elecraft potentially could enter
into the markets with their own digital designs?<br>
<br>
All that does is create confusion among we the amateur consumers and
when that happens everyone suffers because market uncertainty delays
adoption of technology. That benefits no one - consumers or
manufacturers.<br>
<br>
But it seems to me that D-Star is well established and growing.
People have even created their own non-Icom D-Star repeaters. I even
believe the D-Star gateway software in use throughout most of the
world is mostly a U.S design enhancing what the Japanese created. We
just made it better and added more functionality. <br>
<br>
That being said, it would be better for Yaesu to build upon what is
already there instead of trying to recreate the wheel. The time for
trying to create a war of technologies to let the "best man win" so
to speak as already passed. Yaesu should have tried this years ago
when D-Star was first introduced, not after it has experienced
significant adoption around the world. <br>
<br>
For those "who don't get the whole D-Star thing" need to take a
serious look at what it does and what it is capable of. I too was a
D-Star nay-sayer until two years ago while I was on a trip visiting
my daughter in Atlanta. I stopped by the Ham Radio Outlet store in
Atlanta where Mark, KJ4VO spent about two hours educating me on
D-Star and showing me what is was capable of for amateurs. I was
blown away. I had no idea. <br>
<br>
When traveling around to most areas of the midwest and southeast, it
is hard to scare up a conversation on any of the local FM repeaters.
But jump to a D-Star repeater and you can talk to hams locally or
around the world. Seems like D-Star gives amateurs a reason to get
back on VHF and UHF.<br>
<br>
JMHO<br>
<br>
Duffy<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.wb8nut.com">www.wb8nut.com</a><br>
<br>
On 1/6/12 2:05 PM, Stephen H. Smith wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4F074615.7030002@aol.com" type="cite">
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On 1/6/2012 1:30 PM, Daron Wilson wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:05D86CDC2CB746978241AAC124820BF5@oregonelectric.local"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">While the protocol is open, the CODEC is not.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap="">
Just for the sake of discussion, is there a P25 hardware codec available for
free? (since P25 is an open non-proprietary protocol by definition)</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
NO! <br>
<br>
Only part of P25 protocol is open. The over-the-air digital
transport of the data stream, error correction, selective calls to
other station(s), group calls addressed to multiple other stations
, setup & handshaking for trunking modes,
console-to-transmit-site interfaces, etc are open standards. <br>
<br>
However, the "secret sauce" AMBE (Advanced Multi-Band Excitation)
codec used for voice coding/decoding (that compresses analog
voice to a 4.8 or 2.4 kilobits/sec data stream in P25 systems) is
NOT! It is the proprietary intellectual property of DVSI
(Digital Voice Systems Inc) who collects a royalty of anywhere
from $20 to $100 PER RADIO. <br>
<br>
Further, manufacturers are completely free to add all sorts of
proprietary bells and whistles extensions to the basic P25
standard for things like vehicle tracking, messaging, etc. I.e.
the error-free transport and delivery of data packets may be open,
but the contents of the packets can be locked up in intellectual
property patents. <br>
<br>
<br>
This is a somewhat similar situation to the $40 to $100 per unit
"Microsoft Tax" that every computer buyer pays if Windows is
preloaded on a PC. The computer hardware is essentially an open
commodity standard (that can be built by anyone from piece parts
if desired), but you are most likely going to be stuck paying the
Microsoft tax to make it useable. <br>
<br>
Or the way HTML is an "open standard" on the Internet, but
Microsoft then uses the strategy of "embrace and extend" to add
all sorts of proprietary extensions to HTML that only work with
the Internet Explorer browser. <br>
<br>
<blockquote
cite="mid:05D86CDC2CB746978241AAC124820BF5@oregonelectric.local"
type="cite">
<pre wrap="">
And...
Is there any thing about the JARL Dstar protocol that prevents someone from
developing their own CODEC solution?</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
It also uses the AMBE codec. In principle, one could
reverse-engineer the codec and homebrew a compatible piece of
software. However this is criminalized in the US by the vile DCMA
(Digital Millenium Copyright Act) that makes it a Federal Crime to
reverse-engineer proprietary software. Even if you create
completely new code to duplicate the same function. <br>
<br>
<hr size="2" width="100%"><br>
--<br>
<br>
Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com <br>
Skype: WA8LMF<br>
Home Page: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://wa8lmf.net">http://wa8lmf.net</a><br>
<br>
***** NEW Precision Mapping 9 For UIview Released! *****<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/PMap9_Notes.htm">http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/PMap9_Notes.htm</a><br>
<br>
<br>
Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7">http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7</a><br>
<br>
30-meter HF APRS over PSK63<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm">http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm</a><br>
<br>
"APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating <br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths">http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
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</pre>
</blockquote>
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