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Eric,<br>
<br>
I did not answer it because I have no idea why Kenwood and Yaesu
have not built D-Star equipment. That is a question best asked of
them. <br>
<br>
However, you can take a look at history. Kenwood was the first to
introduce a radio with built-in APRS. No other vendor made such a
radio for a number of years. Yaesu finally a few years ago brought
out a handheld followed by a mobile. Icom has never made an APRS
radio to my knowledge. I have no idea why Kenwood adopted it first,
why it took Yaesu so long to come out with their offering, and why
Icom never has produced an APRS radio. Then again, I never asked.
Maybe, and this is just speculation, that the market is not big
enough yet. Only the three of them can provide that answer.<br>
<br>
Being in technology for a number of years (not radio related) I have
experienced a lot of "it's not good, we're not going in that
direction, because it was not invented here" syndrome. Maybe that is
the real underlying reason. Don't know. Not sure how Yaesu or
Kenwood would respond. Then again, even if they did respond, would
that be accurate or just marketing spin?<br>
<br>
Yes, I agree, perception is reality. Won't argue that. But people
have that perception because they are not educated on the subject,
hence THEIR reality is it is an Icom thing. And while the perception
is correct as it is THEIR reality, it does not mean it is right. The
way to correct the reality and the ignorance is education and
obviously Icom and the JARL have not done a very good job of
educating people. I will fault them with that error.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
Duffy<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.wb8nut.com">www.wb8nut.com</a><br>
<br>
On 1/6/12 4:01 PM, Eric Lorenz K9LGE wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4F076136.6030107@emlorenz.com" type="cite">
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(My apologies to the list owners...I realize this has probably
gotten way off topic, but I believe the point being made to
correct misconceptions here are important).<br>
<br>
With all due respect Duffy...you either totally missed the point
of my post, or ignored it.<br>
<br>
You name these people who have developed stuff for D-Star. Great!
But that wasn't my question. Why haven't Kenwood or Yaseu
introduced a D-Star radio. You talk about Kenwood having one in
Japan. One that they are REMARKETING from ICOM. So I'll ask the
question again...if this is such a great wonderful universal open
system...why is ONLY ICOM marketing gear for it? You don't seem to
be able to answer that question...and just go on about how great
D-Star is. Until the other 2 of the Ham Radio 'big 3' start
selling D-Star gear that THEY HAVE DESIGNED AND BUILT, not just
REMARKETED from ICOM, then as far as I am concerned, it is an ICOM
system.<br>
<br>
You can talk about how great the system is, and about all the
people building stuff for it...but the fact is until more than
just one company is building gear for this system, the PERCEPTION
will remain that it is an ICOM system. Period. Because as far as
the US goes, all the commercially built radios, repeaters,
etc...have that little Icom logo on them.<br>
<br>
For some...perception is reality, regardless.<br>
<br>
Eric K9LGE <br>
<br>
On 1/6/2012 8:56 AM, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4F070B80.4050806@wb8nut.com" type="cite">
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Icom does not own the rights to D-Star and did not develop it.
JARL developed it and it is an open standard. That being said,
any manufacturer can build equipment and NOT pay royalties to
Icom or JARL. The only thing proprietary is the AMBE Codec,
about $20 on a chip. I believe AMBE has developed the Codec for
P25 and all the variants. So it will be same issue for Yaesu.<br>
<br>
You asked who has developed non-Icom DStar equipment? Robin,
AA4RC has developed both the DVDongle and the DVAP. Fred, has
been working on numerous offering, one of which is a D-Star
digital voice adapter. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dutch-star.eu">http://www.dutch-star.eu</a>.<br>
<br>
Several people have created and sell D-Star hotspots.<br>
<br>
Kenwood remarkets an Icom D-Star radio in Japan.<br>
<br>
I think Yaesu has gone their own way because competing with Icom
would mean competition and price drops. With everyone using
their own digital method means higher radio prices for all of
us. One standard means lower prices and lower profits. <br>
<br>
I do believe what Yaesu will be introducing could well be
completely closed and proprietary.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Duffy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.wb8nut.com">www.wb8nut.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/6/12 9:11 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4F070106.1040405@homeside.to" type="cite">
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This just reminds me of the moving beam barcode scanner
patents and licensing from years ago. Symbol owned the patent
and manufactured barcode scanners. They offered licenses to
others, but what competitor in their right mind would tool up
a manufacturing plant that paid royalties to their
competitor? So, everyone used Symbol's scanners.<br>
<br>
Fast forward to Dstar. iCom developed it and owns the
rights. I imagine that to appease the powers-that-be, they
had to offer licenses so that they could call it "open". But,
again, what major equipment manufacturer is going to tool up
and pay their direct competitor license fees for Dstar? If
anyone was foolish (aka stupid) enough to do so, iCom could
drive them out of the market by dropping the price of their
own equipment. Remember, they can play numbers games such
that they don't have to include license fees in the cost of
their own radios, but their new competition still has to pay
them. iCom gets a win-win by having an "open" protocol that
they are still marketing as a sole supplier.<br>
<br>
Until a FREE and "Open" digital voice protocol hits the
amateur bands, there won't be any real competition nor
multi-vendor solutions, IMHO.<br>
<br>
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and
Win32<br>
<br>
PS. But what does Dstar have to do with APRS? And is the new
Yaesu digital voice radio going to be APRS-capable as well?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/6/2012 8:57 AM, Eric Lorenz K9LGE wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEhmdT96=VXEY8NGQg2JNwk6Z-ajvU61HFLnEOX_SFzaC5uTeg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p>Duffy,</p>
<p>It is all about perception though...yes, Dstar is an
'open' protocol. Yes, anyone can license and manufacture
equipment for it. So who (of the major ones) has done it?
Icom. So yes, regardless of the reality...Dstar *appears*
to be an Icom protocol. All that has to happen for that to
change is for another manufacturer to get in the game. It
would *appear* though...that this is going to remain
Icom's thing for now.</p>
<p>Eric K9LGE</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 29, 2011 7:59 PM, <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:duffy@wb8nut.com">duffy@wb8nut.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Icom
gave away repeaters to help continue D-Star's growth. So
what is the<br>
big deal with seeding equipment? Companies do it all the
time.<br>
<br>
The Codec is proprietary yes. The Codec is available to
anyone on a chip<br>
for around $25 in quantity one. Buy more and I assume
there is a discount.<br>
Our radios use proprietary chips all the time with
proprietary DSP<br>
firmware. P25 manufacturers use proprietary technology
in their radios.<br>
>From what I have seen so far, D-Star radios are much
less expensive than<br>
P25 radios.<br>
<br>
What do we need cross-compatibility for with Public
Service? You think<br>
Police/Fire/Government are going to allow their systems
to link to amateur<br>
systems? Hardly. And just like the differing P25
systems, the<br>
manufacturers have allowed for interoperability, but I
hardly think<br>
government systems will tie into amateur systems.<br>
<br>
Icom trademarked it to protect it. Just like WB4APR
trademarked APRS. No<br>
one is charging anyone else to use those names.<br>
<br>
D-Star is not an Icom protocol. It was developed by the
JARL and it is an<br>
open technology available to anyone. Only the Codec is
proprietary as<br>
discussed before.<br>
<br>
Duffy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.wb8nut.com"
target="_blank">www.wb8nut.com</a><br>
<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Eric Lorenz
Communications Trailer Coordinator
American Red Cross-Chicagoland Region
Disaster Services Technology
Co-Lead, Routes/Communications/Safety
Amaerican Diabetes Association
Tour de Cure/Chicago 2012
630-430-2421 cell</pre>
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