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(My apologies to the list owners...I realize this has probably
gotten way off topic, but I believe the point being made to correct
misconceptions here are important).<br>
<br>
With all due respect Duffy...you either totally missed the point of
my post, or ignored it.<br>
<br>
You name these people who have developed stuff for D-Star. Great!
But that wasn't my question. Why haven't Kenwood or Yaseu introduced
a D-Star radio. You talk about Kenwood having one in Japan. One that
they are REMARKETING from ICOM. So I'll ask the question again...if
this is such a great wonderful universal open system...why is ONLY
ICOM marketing gear for it? You don't seem to be able to answer that
question...and just go on about how great D-Star is. Until the other
2 of the Ham Radio 'big 3' start selling D-Star gear that THEY HAVE
DESIGNED AND BUILT, not just REMARKETED from ICOM, then as far as I
am concerned, it is an ICOM system.<br>
<br>
You can talk about how great the system is, and about all the people
building stuff for it...but the fact is until more than just one
company is building gear for this system, the PERCEPTION will remain
that it is an ICOM system. Period. Because as far as the US goes,
all the commercially built radios, repeaters, etc...have that little
Icom logo on them.<br>
<br>
For some...perception is reality, regardless.<br>
<br>
Eric K9LGE <br>
<br>
On 1/6/2012 8:56 AM, Amateur Radio WB8NUT wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4F070B80.4050806@wb8nut.com" type="cite">
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Icom does not own the rights to D-Star and did not develop it.
JARL developed it and it is an open standard. That being said, any
manufacturer can build equipment and NOT pay royalties to Icom or
JARL. The only thing proprietary is the AMBE Codec, about $20 on a
chip. I believe AMBE has developed the Codec for P25 and all the
variants. So it will be same issue for Yaesu.<br>
<br>
You asked who has developed non-Icom DStar equipment? Robin, AA4RC
has developed both the DVDongle and the DVAP. Fred, has been
working on numerous offering, one of which is a D-Star digital
voice adapter. <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.dutch-star.eu">http://www.dutch-star.eu</a>.<br>
<br>
Several people have created and sell D-Star hotspots.<br>
<br>
Kenwood remarkets an Icom D-Star radio in Japan.<br>
<br>
I think Yaesu has gone their own way because competing with Icom
would mean competition and price drops. With everyone using their
own digital method means higher radio prices for all of us. One
standard means lower prices and lower profits. <br>
<br>
I do believe what Yaesu will be introducing could well be
completely closed and proprietary.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
Duffy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="http://www.wb8nut.com">www.wb8nut.com</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/6/12 9:11 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) wrote:
<blockquote cite="mid:4F070106.1040405@homeside.to" type="cite">
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This just reminds me of the moving beam barcode scanner patents
and licensing from years ago. Symbol owned the patent and
manufactured barcode scanners. They offered licenses to others,
but what competitor in their right mind would tool up a
manufacturing plant that paid royalties to their competitor?
So, everyone used Symbol's scanners.<br>
<br>
Fast forward to Dstar. iCom developed it and owns the rights.
I imagine that to appease the powers-that-be, they had to offer
licenses so that they could call it "open". But, again, what
major equipment manufacturer is going to tool up and pay their
direct competitor license fees for Dstar? If anyone was foolish
(aka stupid) enough to do so, iCom could drive them out of the
market by dropping the price of their own equipment. Remember,
they can play numbers games such that they don't have to include
license fees in the cost of their own radios, but their new
competition still has to pay them. iCom gets a win-win by
having an "open" protocol that they are still marketing as a
sole supplier.<br>
<br>
Until a FREE and "Open" digital voice protocol hits the amateur
bands, there won't be any real competition nor multi-vendor
solutions, IMHO.<br>
<br>
Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and
Win32<br>
<br>
PS. But what does Dstar have to do with APRS? And is the new
Yaesu digital voice radio going to be APRS-capable as well?<br>
<br>
<br>
On 1/6/2012 8:57 AM, Eric Lorenz K9LGE wrote:
<blockquote
cite="mid:CAEhmdT96=VXEY8NGQg2JNwk6Z-ajvU61HFLnEOX_SFzaC5uTeg@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<p>Duffy,</p>
<p>It is all about perception though...yes, Dstar is an 'open'
protocol. Yes, anyone can license and manufacture equipment
for it. So who (of the major ones) has done it? Icom. So
yes, regardless of the reality...Dstar *appears* to be an
Icom protocol. All that has to happen for that to change is
for another manufacturer to get in the game. It would
*appear* though...that this is going to remain Icom's thing
for now.</p>
<p>Eric K9LGE</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Dec 29, 2011 7:59 PM, <<a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:duffy@wb8nut.com">duffy@wb8nut.com</a>>
wrote:<br type="attribution">
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Icom
gave away repeaters to help continue D-Star's growth. So
what is the<br>
big deal with seeding equipment? Companies do it all the
time.<br>
<br>
The Codec is proprietary yes. The Codec is available to
anyone on a chip<br>
for around $25 in quantity one. Buy more and I assume
there is a discount.<br>
Our radios use proprietary chips all the time with
proprietary DSP<br>
firmware. P25 manufacturers use proprietary technology in
their radios.<br>
>From what I have seen so far, D-Star radios are much
less expensive than<br>
P25 radios.<br>
<br>
What do we need cross-compatibility for with Public
Service? You think<br>
Police/Fire/Government are going to allow their systems to
link to amateur<br>
systems? Hardly. And just like the differing P25 systems,
the<br>
manufacturers have allowed for interoperability, but I
hardly think<br>
government systems will tie into amateur systems.<br>
<br>
Icom trademarked it to protect it. Just like WB4APR
trademarked APRS. No<br>
one is charging anyone else to use those names.<br>
<br>
D-Star is not an Icom protocol. It was developed by the
JARL and it is an<br>
open technology available to anyone. Only the Codec is
proprietary as<br>
discussed before.<br>
<br>
Duffy<br>
<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.wb8nut.com"
target="_blank">www.wb8nut.com</a><br>
<br>
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<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
Eric Lorenz
Communications Trailer Coordinator
American Red Cross-Chicagoland Region
Disaster Services Technology
Co-Lead, Routes/Communications/Safety
Amaerican Diabetes Association
Tour de Cure/Chicago 2012
630-430-2421 cell</pre>
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