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    Well, maybe in the negative future?<br>
    <br>
    Check into the Yaesu FTM-350 mobile and VX-8R HT along with the
    Kenwood D72 HT.<br>
    <br>
    Just be aware that the Yaesu's are closed systems.  You can't access
    the APRS information in them nor transmit through them without
    adding a traditional external TNC.<br>
    <br>
    Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32<br>
    <br>
    On 9/20/2011 11:15 PM, David Nichols wrote:
    <blockquote cite="mid:002e01cc780c$b2254770$166fd650$@com"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);">Is anyone aware of plans to integrate a gps into
            a mobile transceiver (Yaesu or Kenwwod) in the not too
            distant future?.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
            "Calibri","sans-serif"; color: rgb(31,
            73, 125);"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div style="border-right: medium none; border-width: 1pt medium
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          3pt 0in 0in;">
          <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 10pt;
                font-family: "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
              "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
              <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org">aprssig-bounces@tapr.org</a> [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org">mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org</a>]
              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Earl Needham<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 20, 2011 7:47 AM<br>
              <b>To:</b> TAPR APRS Mailing List<br>
              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [aprssig] [These] Mobile Digipeating<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;">Appears my
          attribution may have been incorrect -- at this point, I don't
          know WHO stated "repeating is repeating".<br>
          <br>
          7 3<br>
          Earl<br>
          KD5XB<br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Earl
            Needham <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:earl.kd5xb@gmail.com">earl.kd5xb@gmail.com</a>>
            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Negative, Doc.  See <a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-clarifies-what-constitutes-an-amateur-radio-repeater"
              target="_blank">http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-clarifies-what-constitutes-an-amateur-radio-repeater</a>
            <br>
            <br>
            "03/23/2009 <o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>'In December 2007, Gary Mitchell, WB6YRU, President of the
            Northern California Packet Association (<a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.n0ary.org/ncpa/"
              target="_blank">NCPA</a>), filed a Petition with the FCC,
            asking for the Commission to clarify the definition of a
            repeater. According to <a moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/pdf/47cfr97.3.pdf"
              target="_blank">Part 97, Section 3(a)(39)</a>, A repeater
            in the amateur service is "[a]n amateur station that
            simultaneously retransmits the transmission of another
            amateur station on a different channel or channels."<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>'Mitchell sought clarification on the word
            "simultaneously," asking if it referred to the signal
            information being retransmitted, or to the fact that the
            receiver and transmitter must both be active at the same
            time while acting on the same signal information. On March
            23, 2009, the Commission clarified that even if there is a
            slight delay between what is received and what it transmits
            (as in the case of D-STAR and other digital repeaters), it
            is considered simultaneous if the receiver and transmitter
            are both active at the same time."<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
          <p>Vy 7 3<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>Earl<o:p></o:p></p>
          <p>KD5XB<o:p></o:p></p>
          <div>
            <div>
              <p><o:p> </o:p></p>
              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><o:p> </o:p></p>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:05 AM,
                  Dr. John <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:w3ate@earthlink.net" target="_blank">w3ate@earthlink.net</a>>
                  wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                <div name="Compose message area">
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
                        "Calibri","sans-serif";">Lynn,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
                        "Calibri","sans-serif";">Repeating
                        is repeating either simples or duel.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
                        "Calibri","sans-serif";">The
                        FCC, stated clearly states this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
                          "Calibri","sans-serif";">The
                          only unit's that are repeaters and in mobile
                          mode are as example mini repeaters in police
                          cars, like the state police used when they
                          enter a facility and in remote areas.</span><span
                          style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                          "Tahoma","sans-serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
                          font-family:
                          "Tahoma","sans-serif";">Theses</span><span
                          style="font-family:
                          "Calibri","sans-serif";">
                          units were made by Midland and some other
                          companies. But they were registered.</span><span
                          style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                          "Tahoma","sans-serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:
                          "Calibri","sans-serif";">John
                          W3ATE-8</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;
                          font-family:
                          "Tahoma","sans-serif";"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 10pt;
                          font-family:
                          "Tahoma","sans-serif";"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
                    </div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background: none
                          repeat scroll 0% 0% whitesmoke;"><b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              "Tahoma","sans-serif";">From:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                            "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
                            <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:dnchls@gmail.com"
                              target="_blank" title="dnchls@gmail.com">David
                              Nichols</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style="background: none
                          repeat scroll 0% 0% whitesmoke;"><b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                              "Tahoma","sans-serif";">Sent:</span></b><span
                            style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                            "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
                            Monday, September 19, 2011 10:32 PM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background: none
                              repeat scroll 0% 0% whitesmoke;"><b><span
                                  style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                  "Tahoma","sans-serif";">To:</span></b><span
                                style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org"
                                  target="_blank"
                                  title="aprssig@tapr.org">'TAPR APRS
                                  Mailing List'</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                          <div>
                            <p class="MsoNormal" style="background: none
                              repeat scroll 0% 0% whitesmoke;"><b><span
                                  style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                  "Tahoma","sans-serif";">Subject:</span></b><span
                                style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
                                "Tahoma","sans-serif";">
                                Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div>
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
                            style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73,
                            125);">All of this brings up another issue.
                            From the little I’ve been able to gather
                            about mobile digipeating, and I agree with
                            the statement below ( I believe temporary
                            re-locatable is a better term), it is for
                            temporary emergency use. If this is correct,
                            what constitutes “emergency”. Could I
                            justify using it as described for practice
                            purposes? I practice, on the average, twice
                            a week, for 1-2 hours. I would hate for my
                            next posting to you folks to be from
                            Leavenworth after my first digipeating
                            session </span><span style="font-size:
                            11pt; font-family: Wingdings; color: rgb(31,
                            73, 125);">J</span><span style="font-size:
                            11pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">. Or for
                            that matter, would I be getting nasty-grams
                            from the APRS community? Otherwise, I think
                            this might fit my needs. I could also use it
                            on actual searches, especially if I drive a
                            ways from Incident Base to the subject’s
                            place last seen, which has been the case
                            several times.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
                            style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73,
                            125);"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
                            style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73,
                            125);">dave</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><span
                            style="font-size: 11pt; color: rgb(31, 73,
                            125);">N5FMA</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        <div style="border-right: medium none;
                          border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style:
                          solid none none; border-color: rgb(181, 196,
                          223) -moz-use-text-color -moz-use-text-color;
                          padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><b><span
                                style="font-size: 10pt;">From:</span></b><span
                              style="font-size: 10pt;"> <a
                                moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org"
                                target="_blank">aprssig-bounces@tapr.org</a>
                              [mailto:<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                href="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org"
                                target="_blank">aprssig-bounces@tapr.org</a>]
                              <b>On Behalf Of </b>Jim Alles<br>
                              <b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 17, 2011
                              9:52 AM<br>
                              <b>To:</b> TAPR APRS Mailing List<br>
                              <b>Subject:</b> Re: [aprssig] Mobile
                              Digipeating</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="">Besides, we
                            really aren't talking about mobile
                            digipeating.  That is not recommended for
                            APRS, either.  <o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="">I would call it
                            a re-locatable digipeater, others might use
                            the term portable.   It is temporary, fixed
                            use.<o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="">Peace,<o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="">Jim A. KB3TBX<o:p></o:p></p>
                        </div>
                        <div>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="">On Sat, Sep 17,
                            2011 at 8:53 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
                            <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:ldeffenb@homeside.to"
                              target="_blank">ldeffenb@homeside.to</a>>
                            wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                          <p class="MsoNormal" style="">A digipeater is
                            not a dual-frequency repeater, but a receive
                            and re-transmit on a single frequency.
                             There is no pre-registration required in
                            the United States that I'm aware of.<br>
                            <br>
                            Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for
                            Windows Mobile and Win32 <o:p></o:p></p>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
                                <br>
                                On 9/17/2011 8:32 AM, Dr. John wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:
                                12pt;">Mobile repeaters in the amateur
                                environment is not authorized. As
                                repeaters need to be registered at a
                                fixed position<br>
                                <br>
                                Dr. John Gregory /W3ATE-8<br>
                                <br>
--------------------------------------------------<br>
                                From: "Tom Russo" <<a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:russo@bogodyn.org"
                                  target="_blank">russo@bogodyn.org</a>><br>
                                Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 1:02
                                AM<br>
                                To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" <<a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org"
                                  target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a>><br>
                                Subject: Re: [aprssig] Mobile
                                Digipeating<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="">On Fri, Sep
                                16, 2011 at 10:34:30PM -0600, we
                                recorded a bogon-computron collision of
                                the <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:dnchls@gmail.com"
                                  target="_blank">dnchls@gmail.com</a>>
                                flavor, containing:<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="">I am in
                                search and rescue and use APRS so others
                                can keep track of me.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:
                                12pt;"><br>
                                You're in good company.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="">I<br>
                                live in New Mexico where we have many
                                digipeaters on mountain tops, but we<br>
                                still have many dead zones.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:
                                12pt;"><br>
                                I've been watching your tracks.  I'm not
                                sure the dead zones are as dead as<br>
                                all that.  Still, there are some notable
                                places where there are searches and<br>
                                that have spots where you can't be
                                heard.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="">I have a
                                YAESU VX-8DR ht that I carry with me<br>
                                both when practicing and on actual
                                searches. I am considering buying a<br>
                                Kenwood TM-D710A. I would like to use
                                the 710 in my mobile as a digipeater<br>
                                to either get back to search base on a
                                search or to a mountain digi when I'm<br>
                                practicing so my family can know where
                                I'm at on APRS.fi. I would typically<br>
                                be within a couple of miles from my
                                truck when I transmitted an APRS signal<br>
                                from my ht. How much power does the 710
                                transmit when in digipeater mode?<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:
                                12pt;"><br>
                                It transmits with the same power that
                                you have set for its own APRS<br>
                                transmissions.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="">Would this
                                be a situation where using a mobile
                                would be useful? Presently,<br>
                                it just doesn't seem I have the punch I
                                need when using the ht.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:
                                12pt;"><br>
                                It would help if your truck is generally
                                within range of your handheld, the<br>
                                truck is in a good place where it is
                                getting digipeated, and you don't have<br>
                                terrain in between you and the truck
                                that prevents the truck from hearing
                                you.<br>
                                <br>
                                In this case you could use your truck's
                                callsign as the first hop in your<br>
                                digi path, and WIDE2-2 next in the path.
                                 That'd let your truck beacon you<br>
                                with more ooomph.<br>
                                <br>
                                The downside of this is that if you wind
                                up in a spot where your truck's<br>
                                radio can't hear you, you won't get
                                anywhere even if a WIDE can hear you,<br>
                                because they won't premptively digipeat
                                before your truck.<br>
                                <br>
                                It's unfortunate that Yaesu chose not to
                                implement "Proportional Pathing" in the<br>
                                VX-8*R series radios.  The VX-8R lets
                                you set 8 paths, but rather than<br>
                                cycling through them, it simply
                                concatenates them for every
                                transmission. I'm<br>
                                unfamiliar with the VX-8DR, maybe it
                                does have proportional pathing.  With<br>
                                proportional pathing, you can set
                                multiple digi paths, but rather than
                                using<br>
                                them all at once, it cycles through them
                                for each transmission.  Then you<br>
                                could have "TRUCK,WIDE2-2" for every
                                third transmission,<br>
                                "WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2" for every third
                                transmission, and "WIDE2-2" for every
                                third.<br>
                                That would take care of making sure that
                                at least SOME of your packets get<br>
                                to a wide digi --- either directly, or
                                through your truck, or through a
                                fill-in.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="">Unfortunately,
                                the people I know both in SAR and
                                amateur radio have never<br>
                                played with mobile digipeaters and are
                                pretty clueless on the matter.<o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
                                Clueless?  I don't think that's a fair
                                statement.<br>
                                <br>
                                To date, most SAR activities in the
                                state have managed without pressing need<br>
                                for mobile digis.  NM SAR Support's
                                comms trailer does have a TNC programmed<br>
                                to digi WIDE1-1, so if your path is
                                WIDE1-1, WIDE2-2 (which is OK in NM for<br>
                                low-powered stations and ONLY
                                low-powered stations... there was a big<br>
                                discussion on that subject recently, and
                                you should check the archives<br>
                                about it, I won't open that can of worms
                                again), then the comms trailer in<br>
                                base will serve as a fill-in digi if
                                needed.  We also have a portable digi we<br>
                                can place in the search area when
                                necessary.  It is rarely necessary, but
                                it<br>
                                does get deployed now and then.<br>
                                <br>
                                You should also set your D710 to do
                                TEMPn-N digipeating, but I'm sure<br>
                                Bob B. will pipe in here quickly about
                                that one.  Right now, very few people<br>
                                in the SAR community have their radios
                                set up for it, so counting on the<br>
                                availability of TEMPn-N on searches is
                                not a safe bet just yet.  But if you<br>
                                set your own truck to do TEMPn-N, then
                                when you know you aren't reaching<br>
                                a wide with your handheld on a search,
                                and you know you can hear your truck,<br>
                                you can tinker with your path to use
                                TEMPn-N for a while to be sure of
                                getting<br>
                                out.  You'd use "TEMP1-1,WIDE2-2" in
                                that case, and as long as your truck<br>
                                can hear you you're good.<br>
                                <br>
                                One thing you should NOT do is set your
                                truck to digipeat WIDEn-N as if it<br>
                                were permanent infrastructure.  Some
                                folks in NMSAR did do that for a while<br>
                                and it was a terrible mistake --- it
                                meant that ALL traffic heard by the<br>
                                incident comms trailer was getting
                                digipeated if it had any wide hops left.<br>
                                That meant the APRS radio in the trailer
                                was transmitting all the time, and<br>
                                desensing lots of nearby voice radios
                                every few seconds.<br>
                                <br>
                                -- <br>
                                Tom Russo    KM5VY   SAR502   DM64ux    
                                     <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://www.swcp.com/%7Erusso/"
                                  target="_blank">http://www.swcp.com/~russo/</a><br>
                                Tijeras, NM  QRPL#1592 K2#398  SOC#236 <a
                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM"
                                  target="_blank">http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM</a><br>
                                "One man alone can be pretty dumb
                                sometimes, but for real bona fide<br>
                                stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat
                                teamwork." - Edward Abbey<br>
                                <br>
                                <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                aprssig mailing list<br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org"
                                  target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig"
                                  target="_blank">https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a>
                                <o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:
                                12pt;"><br>
                                <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                aprssig mailing list<br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org"
                                  target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig"
                                  target="_blank">https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                              <p class="MsoNormal" style=""><br>
                                <br>
_______________________________________________<br>
                                aprssig mailing list<br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org"
                                  target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br>
                                <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                  href="https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig"
                                  target="_blank">https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal" style=""> <o:p></o:p></p>
                      </div>
                    </div>
                  </div>
                  <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align: center;"
                    align="center">
                    <hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></div>
                  <div>
                    <p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
                      aprssig mailing list<br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br>
                      <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                        href="https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig"
                        target="_blank">https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><o:p></o:p></p>
                  </div>
                </div>
                <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom: 12pt;"><br>
                  _______________________________________________<br>
                  aprssig mailing list<br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br>
                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                    href="https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig"
                    target="_blank">https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><o:p></o:p></p>
              </div>
              <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
            </div>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
      <pre wrap="">
<fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
_______________________________________________
aprssig mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org">aprssig@tapr.org</a>
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</pre>
    </blockquote>
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