Appears my attribution may have been incorrect -- at this point, I don't know WHO stated "repeating is repeating".<br><br>7 3<br>Earl<br>KD5XB<br><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:45 AM, Earl Needham <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:earl.kd5xb@gmail.com">earl.kd5xb@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">Negative, Doc. See <a href="http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-clarifies-what-constitutes-an-amateur-radio-repeater" target="_blank">http://www.arrl.org/news/fcc-clarifies-what-constitutes-an-amateur-radio-repeater</a> <br>
<br><span>"03/23/2009</span>
<p>'In December 2007, Gary Mitchell, WB6YRU, President of the Northern California Packet Association (<a href="http://www.n0ary.org/ncpa/" target="_blank">NCPA</a>), filed a Petition with the FCC, asking for the Commission to clarify the definition of a repeater. According to <a href="http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/cfr_2002/octqtr/pdf/47cfr97.3.pdf" target="_blank">Part 97, Section 3(a)(39)</a>,
A repeater in the amateur service is "[a]n amateur station that
simultaneously retransmits the transmission of another amateur station
on a different channel or channels."</p>
<p>'Mitchell sought clarification on the word "simultaneously," asking if
it referred to the signal information being retransmitted, or to the
fact that the receiver and transmitter must both be active at the same
time while acting on the same signal information. On March 23, 2009, the
Commission clarified that even if there is a slight delay between what
is received and what it transmits (as in the case of D-STAR and other
digital repeaters), it is considered simultaneous if the receiver and
transmitter are both active at the same time."</p><p><br></p><p>Vy 7 3</p><p>Earl</p><p>KD5XB</p><div><div></div><div class="h5"><p><br></p><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 20, 2011 at 7:05 AM, Dr. John <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:w3ate@earthlink.net" target="_blank">w3ate@earthlink.net</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><u></u>
<div style="padding-left:10px;padding-right:10px;padding-top:15px" vlink="purple" link="blue" name="Compose message area" lang="EN-US">
<div><font face="Calibri">Lynn,</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri">Repeating is repeating either simples or
duel.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri">The FCC, stated clearly states this.</font></div>
<div style="font:10pt Tahoma">
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3">The only unit's that are repeaters and in mobile
mode are as example mini repeaters in police cars, like the state police used
when they enter a facility and in remote areas.</font></div>
<div>Theses<font face="Calibri" size="3"> units were made by Midland and some other
companies. But they were registered.</font></div>
<div><font face="Calibri" size="3">John W3ATE-8</font></div><font face="Calibri" size="3"></font></div>
<div style="font:10pt Tahoma">
<div><br></div>
<div style="background:#f5f5f5">
<div><b>From:</b> <a title="dnchls@gmail.com" href="mailto:dnchls@gmail.com" target="_blank">David Nichols</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 19, 2011 10:32 PM</div><div><div></div><div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="aprssig@tapr.org" href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" target="_blank">'TAPR
APRS Mailing List'</a> </div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [aprssig] Mobile Digipeating</div></div></div></div></div><div><div></div><div>
<div><br></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">All
of this brings up another issue. From the little I’ve been able to gather about
mobile digipeating, and I agree with the statement below ( I believe temporary
re-locatable is a better term), it is for temporary emergency use. If this is
correct, what constitutes “emergency”. Could I justify using it as described for
practice purposes? I practice, on the average, twice a week, for 1-2 hours. I
would hate for my next posting to you folks to be from Leavenworth after my
first digipeating session </span><span style="font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">J</span><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">.
Or for that matter, would I be getting nasty-grams from the APRS community?
Otherwise, I think this might fit my needs. I could also use it on actual
searches, especially if I drive a ways from Incident Base to the subject’s place
last seen, which has been the case several times.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">dave<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1f497d;font-size:11pt">N5FMA<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style="border-bottom:medium none;border-left:medium none;padding-bottom:0in;padding-left:0in;padding-right:0in;border-top:#b5c4df 1pt solid;border-right:medium none;padding-top:3pt">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt">
<a href="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org" target="_blank">aprssig-bounces@tapr.org</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:aprssig-bounces@tapr.org" target="_blank">aprssig-bounces@tapr.org</a>] <b>On Behalf Of
</b>Jim Alles<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, September 17, 2011 9:52 AM<br><b>To:</b>
TAPR APRS Mailing List<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [aprssig] Mobile
Digipeating<u></u><u></u></span></p></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Besides, we really aren't talking about mobile
digipeating. That is not recommended for APRS, either.
<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I would call it a re-locatable digipeater, others might use
the term portable. It is temporary, fixed use.<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Peace,<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Jim A. KB3TBX<u></u><u></u></p></div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Sat, Sep 17, 2011 at 8:53 AM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)
<<a href="mailto:ldeffenb@homeside.to" target="_blank">ldeffenb@homeside.to</a>>
wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">A digipeater is not a dual-frequency repeater, but a receive
and re-transmit on a single frequency. There is no pre-registration
required in the United States that I'm aware of.<br><br>Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ -
Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 <u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br>On 9/17/2011 8:32 AM, Dr. John wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="MsoNormal">Mobile repeaters in the amateur
environment is not authorized. As repeaters need to be registered at a fixed
position<br><br>Dr. John Gregory
/W3ATE-8<br><br>--------------------------------------------------<br>From: "Tom
Russo" <<a href="mailto:russo@bogodyn.org" target="_blank">russo@bogodyn.org</a>><br>Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011
1:02 AM<br>To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" <<a href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a>><br>Subject: Re: [aprssig] Mobile
Digipeating<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:34:30PM -0600, we recorded a
bogon-computron collision of the <<a href="mailto:dnchls@gmail.com" target="_blank">dnchls@gmail.com</a>> flavor, containing:<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am in search and rescue and use APRS so others can keep
track of me.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><br>You're in good
company.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I<br>live in New Mexico where we have many digipeaters on
mountain tops, but we<br>still have many dead zones.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><br>I've been watching your
tracks. I'm not sure the dead zones are as dead as<br>all that.
Still, there are some notable places where there are searches and<br>that
have spots where you can't be heard.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">I have a YAESU VX-8DR ht that I carry with me<br>both when
practicing and on actual searches. I am considering buying a<br>Kenwood
TM-D710A. I would like to use the 710 in my mobile as a digipeater<br>to either
get back to search base on a search or to a mountain digi when I'm<br>practicing
so my family can know where I'm at on APRS.fi. I would typically<br>be within a
couple of miles from my truck when I transmitted an APRS signal<br>from my ht.
How much power does the 710 transmit when in digipeater mode?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><br>It transmits with the same
power that you have set for its own APRS<br>transmissions.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Would this be a situation where using a mobile would be
useful? Presently,<br>it just doesn't seem I have the punch I need when using
the ht.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><br>It would help if your truck
is generally within range of your handheld, the<br>truck is in a good place
where it is getting digipeated, and you don't have<br>terrain in between you and
the truck that prevents the truck from hearing you.<br><br>In this case you
could use your truck's callsign as the first hop in your<br>digi path, and
WIDE2-2 next in the path. That'd let your truck beacon you<br>with more
ooomph.<br><br>The downside of this is that if you wind up in a spot where your
truck's<br>radio can't hear you, you won't get anywhere even if a WIDE can hear
you,<br>because they won't premptively digipeat before your truck.<br><br>It's
unfortunate that Yaesu chose not to implement "Proportional Pathing" in
the<br>VX-8*R series radios. The VX-8R lets you set 8 paths, but rather
than<br>cycling through them, it simply concatenates them for every
transmission. I'm<br>unfamiliar with the VX-8DR, maybe it does have proportional
pathing. With<br>proportional pathing, you can set multiple digi paths,
but rather than using<br>them all at once, it cycles through them for each
transmission. Then you<br>could have "TRUCK,WIDE2-2" for every third
transmission,<br>"WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2" for every third transmission, and "WIDE2-2"
for every third.<br>That would take care of making sure that at least SOME of
your packets get<br>to a wide digi --- either directly, or through your truck,
or through a fill-in.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Unfortunately, the people I know both in SAR and amateur
radio have never<br>played with mobile digipeaters and are pretty clueless on
the matter.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br>Clueless? I don't think that's a fair
statement.<br><br>To date, most SAR activities in the state have managed without
pressing need<br>for mobile digis. NM SAR Support's comms trailer does
have a TNC programmed<br>to digi WIDE1-1, so if your path is WIDE1-1, WIDE2-2
(which is OK in NM for<br>low-powered stations and ONLY low-powered stations...
there was a big<br>discussion on that subject recently, and you should check the
archives<br>about it, I won't open that can of worms again), then the comms
trailer in<br>base will serve as a fill-in digi if needed. We also have a
portable digi we<br>can place in the search area when necessary. It is
rarely necessary, but it<br>does get deployed now and then.<br><br>You should
also set your D710 to do TEMPn-N digipeating, but I'm sure<br>Bob B. will pipe
in here quickly about that one. Right now, very few people<br>in the SAR
community have their radios set up for it, so counting on the<br>availability of
TEMPn-N on searches is not a safe bet just yet. But if you<br>set your own
truck to do TEMPn-N, then when you know you aren't reaching<br>a wide with your
handheld on a search, and you know you can hear your truck,<br>you can tinker
with your path to use TEMPn-N for a while to be sure of getting<br>out.
You'd use "TEMP1-1,WIDE2-2" in that case, and as long as your truck<br>can
hear you you're good.<br><br>One thing you should NOT do is set your truck to
digipeat WIDEn-N as if it<br>were permanent infrastructure. Some folks in
NMSAR did do that for a while<br>and it was a terrible mistake --- it meant that
ALL traffic heard by the<br>incident comms trailer was getting digipeated if it
had any wide hops left.<br>That meant the APRS radio in the trailer was
transmitting all the time, and<br>desensing lots of nearby voice radios every
few seconds.<br><br>-- <br>Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502
DM64ux <a href="http://www.swcp.com/%7Erusso/" target="_blank">http://www.swcp.com/~russo/</a><br>Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592
K2#398 SOC#236 <a href="http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM" target="_blank">http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM</a><br>"One man alone can be
pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide<br>stupidity, there ain't nothin'
can beat teamwork." - Edward
Abbey<br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>aprssig
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br><a href="https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig" target="_blank">https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p style="margin-bottom:12pt" class="MsoNormal"><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>aprssig
mailing list<br><a href="mailto:aprssig@tapr.org" target="_blank">aprssig@tapr.org</a><br><a href="https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig" target="_blank">https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig</a><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>aprssig
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</div></div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p></div>
</div></div><p>
</p><hr><div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br>
</div></div></blockquote></div><br>