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<br><div> <span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; 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color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; text-indent: 0px; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; text-transform: none; orphans: 2; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; "><div>***</div><div>Alan M. Fudge DVM</div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div>Foot Team: El Dorado County Sheriff SAR 302</div><div>2008 Sierra West Training Officer </div><div>Ham Call: K6PUG </div><div><br class="khtml-block-placeholder"></div><div>Thanks Curt, Bob B, and Stephen for your replies.</div></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span></span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="border-collapse: separate; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: auto; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-horizontal-spacing: 0px; -webkit-border-vertical-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none; -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0; "><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"></span><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"> </span></span></span></span></div><br><div><div>On Feb 4, 2008, at 10:00 AM, <a href="mailto:aprssig-request@lists.tapr.org">aprssig-request@lists.tapr.org</a> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><blockquote type="cite"><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">I assume you mean WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>The added space would not</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">work.</font></p></blockquote>Yes I do<br><blockquote type="cite"> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Monaco; min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> <blockquote type="cite"><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">and my MT1200 in portable mobile (Yaesu) box set for Wide 1-1,</font></p> </blockquote><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">2-2</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Monaco; min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">I assume you mean WIDE1-1,WIDE2-2 here also.. This is a 3 hop</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">path that might be excessive in most areas, but maybe your area</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">is very remote...</font></p></blockquote>yes I do</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>- There is a mountain digi lower in the Sierras (Mt. Danaher) at the site of Fire antennas- put up by a USFS radio guy who is also a Ham. Otherwise not much up there.<br><blockquote type="cite"> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Monaco; min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> <blockquote type="cite"><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 10.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">I note the HTs are set for RELAY,WIDE.</font></p> </blockquote><p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Monaco; min-height: 16.0px"><br></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">That was the default 10 years ago when those HT's first came</font></p> <p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px"><font face="Monaco" size="3" style="font: 12.0px Monaco">out.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>You should change this to WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1.</font></p> </blockquote><br></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div>further:</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><TWO POSSIBILITIES:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">SIMPLE ONE: In the D700's set UIDIGI to WIDE1-1, and set</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">DIGIPEAT OFF. Then only turn DIGIPEAT ON when you have a</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">specific need for a particular 4WD to serve as a digi for</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">handhelds in its area. If you leave it on, then all the mobiles</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">will digipeat each other all the time, and there will be just</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">too much QRM most of the time.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">What we need is a way for the Mobiles to digipeat only the HT's,</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but for the HT's to still be heard by all the digipeaters. You</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">might consider the next option IF and ONLY IF, you have control</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">over ALL the digipeaters in all areas where you may be required</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">to operate:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">SPECIAL SAR CONFIGURATION:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">IF-(and-only-if) you can set up all DIGIpeaters in your</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">operating are area, then consdier this:</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">1) Add SAR to the UIDIGI alias list in all DIGIS</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">2) Put SAR in the UIDIGI alias list in all 4WD Mobiles</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3) Set DIGIPEAT ON in all 4WD mobiles</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">3) Set path in all HT's as SAR,WIDE2-2</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">4) Set path in all 4WD's to WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">This lets the HT's digipeat via all DIGIS and also via all 4WD's</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">but does not have the 4WD's mobiles all digipeating via each</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">other. And this way, you can leave the 4WD's configured for</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">digipeat all the time without any penalty.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">I am open to comments if this is not viable. But it seems like</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">a pretty good approach to me. But then you have to get the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">participation of all the digipeater operators in your plans.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Now, I did set the HT's above to a 3 hop path. This assumes</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">that most of the time, they are not on the air, except when they</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">are out in the field and will most often be digipeating the firs</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hop via the 4WD's.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">You can fine tune the nuber of hops according to your area. The</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">way this works, is that the first hop of SAR will be digipeated</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">only by those digipeaters with that alias. They will do</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">callsign substitution so that you can see what was the first</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">hop. The only down side is that if the HT is in view of a DIGI</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">and a 4WD at the same time, then an extra copy of the packet is</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">generated and this adds somewhat to QRM.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">But if say a SAR event is going on in the immediate area of a</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">mountain DIGI, and these dupes are a problem because all the</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">HT's can also hit the digi direct, then it is a simple matter of</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">asking the 4WD drivers to set their APRS menu DIGIPETER to OFF.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; min-height: 14px; "><br></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Bob WB4APR>></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">In additional to the operational management politics, I would think that all the 4WDs digipeating would be better- ground people drop into a canyon or behind a hill and they would be glad to hit at least whoever is in the area. And while the 4WD guys are pretty savvy, including the radios- these Kenwoods were purchased by our non-profit and then mod/programmed by a team member. They don't tend to change the settings (not unlike a public safety person). However with a convincing enough case to do so- it could be trained etc.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">We actually have a portable digipeating station, currently in possession of a Mounted member, a programmer who works with Xastir and google mapping etc. and they have done some interesting training exercises. But I don't think the station has EVER been used in an active search, nor can we count on it showing up. We can always count on 4WDs to show up, if called out.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">Then, the rules change in the far west of our county (closer to Sacramento)- where more population and infrastructure- our searches are split between High Sierra recreational and foothill recreational/Alzheimers/child etc). So path settings closer to the metropolis might be different. I am just not sure that we could count on the daily changes.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">But I will also review all the links (probably read most of them at least once before)- to make the case to lose the RELAY, WIDE.</div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; "><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div style="margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; ">And since this foot to 4WD "APRS radionet" has never been tested, I am not clear on what we can get by with. I just know even in the far west part of the county- away from roads and homes- you don't have to get out too far in public lands where the minitracker/HT Wide 1-1,WIDE2-2 won't get out far enough to track on the internet vs. being on the main hwy.</div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><div><br class="webkit-block-placeholder"></div><br></body></html>