[aprssig] Modems and FEC

[Jess Haas]

APRS could continue to function for those devices as a multimode network.
If the digipeaters and igates evolved to decode more efficient encodings
and higher bitrates in addition to the standard 1200 baud ax25 then legacy
devices could still transmit just fine while newer devices and those with
strong signals could use modes that would use up less airtime. Even if
digipeaters digipeated everything as 1200baud ax25 it would increase the
capacity of the network, evolve the infrastructure and encourage
manufacturers to support newer modes.

Even just adding 9600baud to the mix would have advantages.

-Jess
K5LLI

On Sun, Feb 13, 2022, 11:30 PM Randy Hall <aa6rh at socorad.io> wrote:

> Hey guys, I love the blue sky nature of this. Seriously. I use Direwolf
> for a couple of big footprint digi/igate sites, and I'm hugely excited
> about M17 as a data and digital voice mode.
>
> But there is a ridiculous amount of installed hardware that only speaks
> 1200 baud AX.25 AFSK packet, and it needs to be comprehended in whatever
> vision we might create.
>
> That isn't to say the physical layer definition shouldn't be expansive to
> include and accommodate many different OTA modes. But physical layer is
> just part of it.
>
> As for OpenTrac, I tried visiting http://opentrac.net/ and was visited
> with a "site down" notification. Is the site meant to be offline?
>
> --R
> *--*
> *Randy AA6RH*
> *aa6rh at socorad.io <aa6rh at socorad.io>*
> *Grid Square: CM88pl*
>
> *QRZ Profile <https://www.qrz.com/db/aa6rh>*
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>
>
> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022 at 9:28 PM Mobilinkd LLC <mobilinkd at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I helped define the M17 data modes, which includes a raw packet mode.
>> M17 uses 4-FSK modulation with FEC.  There is experimental firmware
>> available for the Mobilinkd TNC3 and NucleoTNC that will do M17 packet
>> mode. I've had an M17 APRS repeater up at times in Chicago.
>>
>> Data modes on M17 approaches 5kbps throughput.  It uses 4800 symbols/sec,
>> 9600bps, with a slightly punctured convolutional code.
>>
>> https://m17project.org/
>>
>> Kind Regards,
>>
>> Rob Riggs WX9O
>> Mobilinkd LLC
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 13, 2022 at 10:54 PM Gregg Wonderly <gregg at wonderly.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> OpenTrac is an even better idea and more extensible and more easily
>>> processed than APRS packets!  Let’s really take a moment to reflect on what
>>> it could mean to start with a better solution end to end!
>>>
>>> Gregg
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Feb 13, 2022, at 6:32 PM, John Langner WB2OSZ <wb2osz at comcast.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The AX.25 and APRS protocol specifications say nothing
>>>
>>> at all about modems.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The reason that we are using 1200 bps is because early
>>>
>>> packet radio developers, in Canada, in the late 1970s, happened
>>>
>>> to acquire a pile of old Bell 202 modems for 75 cents each.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The method that we use for 9600 bps was developed in
>>>
>>> the late 1980s.  It has been widely implemented but won't
>>>
>>> work with the microphone and speaker connections because
>>>
>>> the audio processing distorts the signal and limits the bandwidth.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In the early 1990s, multiple TNC vendors produced products capable
>>>
>>> of 2400 bps:  MFJ-2400, AEA PK232-2400, Kantronics KPC-2400.
>>>
>>> Maybe if other vendors had offered the same we would all be using
>>>
>>> 2400 bps today.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With the shift from hardware modems to software modems,
>>>
>>> the possibilities are endless.  Upgrades are easy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Two methods of Forward Error Correction are currently being used:
>>>
>>> (1)    FX.25 which is completely interoperable with original AX.25.
>>>
>>> (2)    IL2P which has less overhead but is not compatible.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Better alternatives are available today for those who want to use
>>>
>>> them.   The problem is trying to convince most of the installed base
>>>
>>> to break free of a precedent set more than 40 years ago.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 73,
>>>
>>> John WB2OSZ
>>>
>>>
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