[aprssig] Tesla Field Day mode (or any EV/Hybrid)

Gregg Wonderly gregg at wonderly.org
Wed Feb 27 20:48:08 EST 2019 

So there are some questions for you.

When a hurricane or other significant storm kills the power grid as we’ve seen lately, what’s going to power the gas pumps, the billing systems for your use?

In the morning when it cold and you want to warm your car up, can you do that in the garage without dying from the pollution your gasoline or diesel or cng car makes?

If you get home at 1:00am from a long trip with an empty tank in cold weather or warm, how much time does it take for you to wait for your vehicle to fill up?

If you fill up your car twice a week and it takes 7min out of your schedule to do that, you are spending over 700 minutes or more than 10 hours of your life stuck with out going.  EVs can charge at home overnight and be ready to go immediately in the morning.  I pay $0.10/kWh of juice? It costs me $5.00 e wry day for my 1.5hr round trip.  At the end of my warranty I will have saved over $6500.00 in cash from driving my EV instead of a 22mpg has vehicle at around $1.80 per gallon,

As already said, I replace tires and fill the washer fluid and charge!

Gregg 

> On Feb 27, 2019, at 10:46 AM, Eric H. Christensen via aprssig <aprssig at lists.tapr.org> wrote:
> 
> There are more EVs out there than the Tesla's. My Chevy Bolt's maintenance is "rotate the tires", is four times more efficient than my CR-V that already gets 36+ MPG, and my insurance payment isn't any more than it is for my CR-V. 
> 
> Eric WG3K
> 
> 
> Sent from ProtonMail mobile
> 
> 
> 
> -------- Original Message --------
> On Feb 27, 2019, 11:17 AM, Michael Barnes < barnmichael at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> "Cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain"? I thought you were talking about a Tesla. You can buy (and insure) a half dozen little 40mpg economy cars for the price of a Tesla.
> 
> Michael 
> 
>> On Wed, Feb 27, 2019, 06:50 Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu> wrote:
>> True!   No one says an EV is best for every need.  The purpose of EV’s is to provide an alternative for the 95% of US vehicle transportation that is just wasting fossil fuels doing local daily miles that can be done better, faster, cleaner and cheaper to buy, cheaper to operate and cheaper to maintain.  For the other applications such as you describe (about 5% of the average national transportation need), of course a fossil fuel wins hands down.  Each individual need is unique and there are now all kinds of options from massive diesel trucks, to simple EV commuter cars.  Each person chooses what best meets his need.   Bob
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: aprssig <aprssig-bounces at lists.tapr.org> On Behalf Of Ron Stordahl AE5E via aprssig
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2019 4:32 PM
>> To: aprssig at lists.tapr.org
>> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Tesla Field Day mode (or any EV/Hybrid)
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> "We have a much better situation around here"
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We have truck stops with diesel fuel.  I drove my Ford Excursion Diesel home, with a bunch of skiers once, from Bozeman Montana to Thief River Falls Minnesota one winter night when it was 20 below zero.  Only had to stop in Dickinson North Dakota (7 hours 500 miles) to fuel up and get some grub.  Just another 400 miles to get home by daylight.  Nice and warm, with heated seats! All our ski equipment, luggage and emergency supplies fit nicely in the back. My Kenwood D710 was putting out APRS spots and worked a little HF DX on my old Icom 706 with no ignition interference at all! 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> If I had seen some Tesla's stalled with dead batteries I would have been happy to rescue the occupants from freezing to death, assuming they could lower their pride to ride in an internal combustion engine vehicle.  I bet they would have jumped at the chance!
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I am old and I can't recall a colder winter with more snow than this one.  Off my driveway I have snow piled up 15 feet.  I could sell lift tickets! I would welcome global warming. Its not happening. Forecast tonight is for 35 below wind chills. An ice age seems more likely. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Do they have snowplows for 4 wheel drive Tesla's? Or do you have to pay double for two vehicles..one for showing off and a second for survival?   
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Today there is no wind at all, the blades are not turning, it is completely overcast, with limited visibility, the solar panels are at zero volts.  Thankfully the lignite coal fired generators in North Dakota are churning out electricity nicely so we will survive.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> I am doing my part by turning down the heat to 60 degrees at home so you know I care! 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> Ron, AE5E
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>> On Tuesday, February 26, 2019, 10:41:26 AM CST, Andre <aprs at pe1rdw.demon.nl> wrote:
>> 
>>  
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We have a much better situation around here,
>> 
>> Public charging points (3x32 amp 240 v) are free to get installed for
>> 
>> any company or city if they can show proof of demand, the charge net
>> 
>> provider forks the bill because they will be the ones to get the profit.
>> 
>> charging cost is about 20 eurocent per kwh with the average EV using
>> 
>> about 10 kwh per 100 km it would be less then 2 euro per day without
>> 
>> charging at home.
>> 
>> Now comes the best part, with both smart charging and V2G enabled and
>> 
>> the charge network participating in grid balancing auctions, the EV
>> 
>> owner gets a cut back from the charging company and the employer does
>> 
>> not have to do anything for it except request the number of charging
>> 
>> points that are needed free of cost.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> The employer would not gain anything here from doing it themselfs as we
>> 
>> do not have peak demand charges, they just pay for the max they can
>> 
>> draw, be it 3x80 amp 240v for a small dedicated line or a 3x32amp 10 kv
>> 
>> line and the amount actually used, the max capacity also counts for
>> 
>> delivering back, afterall the components do not care what way the
>> 
>> current flows.
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 73 de Andre PE1RDW
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On 2/25/19 6:10 PM, Robert Bruninga wrote:
>> 
>> > V2G charging and grid management:
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > I think this Vehicle-to-Grid (V2G) concept will never take off, simply
>> 
>> > because it cannot work unless the cars are plugged-in all day.  This WILL
>> 
>> > work if workplaces do employee charging the right way, that is, with rows
>> 
>> > and rows of parking spaces with simple 120v outlets.  During an 8 hour
>> 
>> > work day, the average EV can gain up to 30 miles of daily range to
>> 
>> > replenish their incoming commute while costing about 50 cents a day.
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > But since so few "employers" have any EV experience, they opt for very
>> 
>> > expensive $5000 Level 2 chargers instead of a $15 outlet from Home Depot.
>> 
>> > As a result, these big expensive chargers have to be shared throughout the
>> 
>> > day, require expensive internet and credit card connectivity and
>> 
>> > management and each person that plugs in only for an hour or so has to
>> 
>> > move their car every hour or so and does not want any of his electricity
>> 
>> > to go back to the grid, he wants the charge!
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > But with every car plugged into a 120v outlet (the right way), the
>> 
>> > employer can use that fixed daily load to balance his dynamic load and
>> 
>> > thereby actually reduce his peak-demand charges.  And the financial
>> 
>> > benefit of demand-response loading can likely exceed the 50 cents a day to
>> 
>> > charge an EV and so most likely allow the employer to provide the charging
>> 
>> > for FREE.
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > It's a win-win.  Every EV gets a pretty good commuter charge per day for
>> 
>> > low cost or free, the employer saves electric bill money by managing peak
>> 
>> > demand, and the grid wins by reducing dynamic demand..  And all of this is
>> 
>> > accomplished without ever having to use V2G and all its inherent social
>> 
>> > negativity.
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > Its an exciting new world of energy.  If people will just wake up to the
>> 
>> > potential...
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > Bob, WB4APR
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> 
>> > From: aprssig <aprssig-bounces at lists.tapr.org> On Behalf Of Andre
>> 
>> > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2019 10:47 AM
>> 
>> > To: aprssig at lists.tapr.org
>> 
>> > Subject: Re: [aprssig] Tesla Field Day mode (or any EV/Hybrid)
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > I am currently working for a electric grid company in the Netherlands, the
>> 
>> > current charging protocol of electric cars support both smart charging
>> 
>> > (only charge when there is a surplus of energy) and back charging
>> 
>> > (supplying energy back to the grid when there is high demand) off course
>> 
>> > this requires a charger that can support this, most home chargers can not
>> 
>> > but the newest public chargers (non fast charge) are capable if enabled.
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > So it is not the car that is limiting this but rather the charger you use,
>> 
>> > as the charging protocol is public it might be possible to make your own,
>> 
>> > not sure I would recommend it as we are talking several 100 volt DC.
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>> > 73 Andre PE1RDW.
>> 
>> > 
>> 
>>  
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