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-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From g0jxn.jim at ntlworld.com Tue Aug 2 03:52:26 2011 From: g0jxn.jim at ntlworld.com (G0JXN Jim) Date: Tue, 2 Aug 2011 07:52:26 -0000 Subject: [aprssig] Net14 July Report Message-ID: <263AC98DF3D44520B73159ACB29C5E2D@owner79572e3cb> Hi Guys The Net14 July 2011 Report has been uploaded to www.net14.org.uk. A poor month on 20m with activity mainly within Europe. On 10m just one contact but this is probably a matter of stations not being QRV. Some changes made to the Stop Press Conditions Predictor to allow switching between 10m and 20m easier and a link to Space Weather installed to give up to date information on the sun's activity. Also charts showing MUF between Europe and all continents now available. 73 Jim, G0JXN/MB7UXN -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From lu5agq at aprs.com.ar Thu Aug 4 12:11:31 2011 From: lu5agq at aprs.com.ar (Gaston (LU5AGQ)) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 13:11:31 -0300 Subject: [aprssig] Best path for balloon Message-ID: Hello everybody, we're launching one balloon in september. The experiment will include APRS (of course) a voice repeater and CW telemetry. My question is wich is the best path for the beacon? Also this saturday we will test the equipment in a gliding (is that name correct?), then the question is again wich is the best path for beacon. Any suggestion? Many thanks in advance. -- LU5AGQ Gaston Ettedgui .-.. ..- ..... .- --. --.- lu5agq at aprs.com.ar http://www.aprs.com.ar http://argentina.aprs2.net:14501 http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/LU-APRS http://ar.groups.yahoo.com/group/DSTARLU From bruninga at usna.edu Thu Aug 4 12:38:17 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 12:38:17 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Best path for balloon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <044301cc52c4$e9e10e50$bda32af0$@edu> > Subject: [aprssig] Best path for balloon > My question is wich is the best path for the beacon? ANSWER: WIDE2-1 Because WIDE1-1 is VERBOTEN at altitude because it brings up all manner offill-in digis often at peoples homes and causes them QRM. Because WIDE2-2 is not needed, since every digipeater will hear the packet direct, and once it is on the ground, your chase crew should certainly be within 1 digipeater of hearing it if it makes any digi at all. So WIDE2-1 is the way to get one hop without using WIDE1-1. Also NO MORE OFTEN than once per minute (if using he national frequency)... Bob, WB4APR From ve2jor at videotron.ca Thu Aug 4 12:41:41 2011 From: ve2jor at videotron.ca (Ronald Armstrong) Date: Thu, 04 Aug 2011 12:41:41 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Best path for balloon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E3ACBC5.6020003@videotron.ca> Hello Gaston The path for the balloon is wide2-1...that is we are using here in the province of Qu?bec we are a group that we launch balloon in the summerhere is our web site it is in french http://raqi.ca/braq/ Ronald VE2JOR 73's > Hello everybody, we're launching one balloon in september. The > experiment will include APRS (of course) a voice repeater and CW > telemetry. > > My question is wich is the best path for the beacon? > > Also this saturday we will test the equipment in a gliding (is that > name correct?), then the question is again wich is the best path for > beacon. > > Any suggestion? > > Many thanks in advance. > From kg4wsv at gmail.com Thu Aug 4 12:53:22 2011 From: kg4wsv at gmail.com (Jason KG4WSV) Date: Thu, 4 Aug 2011 11:53:22 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Best path for balloon In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: If you use a smart tracker, like an OpenTracker, that has profile switching just use the standard mobile path at low altitudes (e.g. less than 10k or 15k feet), and an empty path at high altitudes. -Jason kg4wsv From pisymbol at gmail.com Mon Aug 8 15:26:17 2011 From: pisymbol at gmail.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2011 15:26:17 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] [aprs-sig] Setting up a basic weather station Message-ID: Folks: I am thinking of setting up a weather station at community co-op as a service to the gardeners. I want to relay the weather information to my home base and then broadcast it on the web. I was thinking of doing the data collection via RF. Problem, I am not going to keep a D710A or other substance at the garden. Is there a cheaper way to do this? I have no problem setting up an antenna and we do have a shed with a lock on it. Is there a cheap way to relay WX objects via APRS (RF)? Looking for some ideas, -aps (KC2ZSX) From scott at opentrac.org Mon Aug 8 15:33:51 2011 From: scott at opentrac.org (Scott Miller) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 12:33:51 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] [aprs-sig] Setting up a basic weather station In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E403A1F.2010608@opentrac.org> Hi Alexander, That's exactly the sort of thing we sell the ADS-WS1 for: https://www.argentdata.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=135 My demo station (N1VG-14) has an ADS-WS1, an old Alinco DJ-F1T handheld, an 8 AH gel cell battery, a cheap charge controller, and a 5-watt solar panel from Harbor Freight. The battery, radio, and charge controller are in a .50 cal ammo can. It's been running like that for a couple of years now. If you're not getting to the APRS network direct from the garden site, you could set up an IGate at home, which could be as simple as a scanner or other radio listening on 144.39 and connected to the PC sound card, with AGWPE and UI-View32 running. I've got another ADS-WS1 setup that I'll have to post details about later. I cut off the TV antenna that came with my travel trailer and replaced it with the wind sensor assembly, so I can crank it up and orient it from inside the trailer. When the mast is lowered, the dual-band antenna blocks the anemometer cups to keep them from spinning at freeway speeds. Scott N1VG On 8/8/2011 12:26 PM, Alexander Sack wrote: > Folks: > > I am thinking of setting up a weather station at community co-op as a > service to the gardeners. I want to relay the weather information to > my home base and then broadcast it on the web. > > I was thinking of doing the data collection via RF. Problem, I am not > going to keep a D710A or other substance at the garden. Is there a > cheaper way to do this? I have no problem setting up an antenna and > we do have a shed with a lock on it. Is there a cheap way to relay WX > objects via APRS (RF)? > > Looking for some ideas, > > -aps (KC2ZSX) > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Mon Aug 8 16:14:47 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2011 16:14:47 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] [aprs-sig] Setting up a basic weather station In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E4043B7.8020704@aol.com> On 8/8/2011 3:26 PM, Alexander Sack wrote: > Folks: > > I am thinking of setting up a weather station at community co-op as a > service to the gardeners. I want to relay the weather information to > my home base and then broadcast it on the web. > > I was thinking of doing the data collection via RF. Problem, I am not > going to keep a D710A or other substance at the garden. Is there a > cheaper way to do this? I have no problem setting up an antenna and > we do have a shed with a lock on it. Is there a cheap way to relay WX > objects via APRS (RF)? > > Looking for some ideas, If you are going to do this via APRS, you will obviously need a weather station, a radio and a TNC of some sort. Probably the cheapest way would be to pick up an old junker-clunker crystal-controlled two-meter rig at a hamfest or swapmeet, crystal it's TX for 144.39, and combine it with a Byonics WXtrak. The WXtrak ($33 kit or $42 assembled with case) is a specialized transmit-only TNC designed solely to connect to certain weather stations. You plug the WX station into the WXtrack serial port, and connect the TX audio and PTT at the other end of the device to your radio's mic jack or data port. WXtrack supports a limited variety of weather stations. Check the list of supported WX stations before buying one. Details here: . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths > -aps (KC2ZSX) > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From pisymbol at gmail.com Tue Aug 9 10:06:17 2011 From: pisymbol at gmail.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 10:06:17 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] [aprs-sig] Setting up a basic weather station In-Reply-To: <4E4043B7.8020704@aol.com> References: <4E4043B7.8020704@aol.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 8, 2011 at 4:14 PM, Stephen H. Smith wrote: > On 8/8/2011 3:26 PM, Alexander Sack wrote: >> >> Folks: >> >> I am thinking of setting up a weather station at community co-op as a >> service to the gardeners. ?I want to relay the weather information to >> my home base and then broadcast it on the web. >> >> I was thinking of doing the data collection via RF. ?Problem, I am not >> going to keep a D710A or other substance at the garden. ?Is there a >> cheaper way to do this? ?I have no problem setting up an antenna and >> we do have a shed with a lock on it. ?Is there a cheap way to relay WX >> objects via APRS (RF)? >> >> Looking for some ideas, > > If you are going to do this via APRS, you will obviously need a weather > station, a radio and a TNC of some sort. > > Probably the cheapest way would be to pick up an old junker-clunker > crystal-controlled two-meter rig at a hamfest or swapmeet, crystal it's TX > for 144.39, ?and combine it with a Byonics WXtrak. ? The WXtrak ? ($33 kit > or $42 assembled with case) ?is a specialized transmit-only TNC designed > solely to connect to certain weather stations. ?You plug the WX station into > the WXtrack serial port, and connect the TX audio and PTT at the other end > of the device to your radio's mic jack or data port. ?WXtrack supports a > limited variety of weather stations. Check the list of supported WX stations > before buying one. ? Details here: > > . > Guys thank you very much. A local club and a few members have offered some older radio VHF equipment that may do the trick. The Byonics WXtrak seems very attractive given its cost and simplicity. Now the issue is the weather station itself. Any recommendations? I am asking folks on this list since APRS enabled weather stations are somewhat common among amateur radio operators. -aps (KC2ZSX) From ve7gdh at rac.ca Tue Aug 9 13:28:35 2011 From: ve7gdh at rac.ca (Keith VE7GDH) Date: Tue, 9 Aug 2011 10:28:35 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] [aprs-sig] Setting up a basic weather station References: <4E4043B7.8020704@aol.com> Message-ID: <0691277E94944E3F9F07ECBABD22DD07@d2> Alexander KC2ZSX wrote... > A local club and a few members have offered some older radio VHF > equipment that may do the trick. The Byonics WXtrak seems very > attractive given its cost and simplicity. Now the issue is the weather . station itself. Any recommendations? The WXTrak is a nice product, but keep in mind that the ADS-WS1 includes the WX station itself, wind speed and direction, rain gauge, barometer, and temperature. The WXTrak needs a WX station to get the data from. The ADS-WS1 is the WX station plus creates the beacons that are sent to a radio. While you will undoubtedly get some answers here, you may be better off asking over on the Byonics TT3 support list. 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH -- "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!" From bruninga at usna.edu Thu Aug 11 10:48:43 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 10:48:43 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] VHF Rovers Unite! Message-ID: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> VHF Rovers Unite! For this coming Sept VHF QSO party(10-11 Sept), a cadre of APRS mobiles and portables is going to man 15 mountain tops along the Appalachians from Maine to Georgia (and anywhere else in the country where contesting is popular). Their APRS radio will be on the PROPNET frequency of 147.585 and will be enabled for APRS digipeating. Not only will they be able to see all the contest rovers out there, but they will also digipeat any such beacons to others so that everyone can see where everyone is. These packets have nothing to do with the contest or scoring, but they just support the mobile rovers and portable operators in seeing where everyone is located. This kind of ad-hoc system works if all mobiles and portable stations use the same settings in their APRS radios and TNC's as follows: FREQUENCY: 147.585 (the PROPNET frequency) PATH: TEMP7-7 (may need to reduce to TEMP3-3 if load is too high) SYMBOL: Rover or Portable (tent) RATE: Every 5 minutes Now then, to make the ad-hoc network self-supporting, every well situated station (mountaintop or mobile and ROVERS) with a D700 or KPC-3 should also enable their own station for digipeating. To enable your station as a TEMPn-N digipeater also, use these settings: UITRACE TEMP DIGI ON These need to be permanently set in the Radio TNC via the serial port prior to the event. In fact, these settings are now factory defaults in all D710's and subsequent radios so that any radio, any time, can serve as an ad-hoc digi for others on demand, by simply using the TEMPn-N path. For details and background please see: http://aprs.org/rovers.html Make sure you test your station before the event! Good luck in the Contest! Bob, WB4APR From capdiamont at yahoo.com Thu Aug 11 23:27:30 2011 From: capdiamont at yahoo.com (Larry LaBranche) Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2011 20:27:30 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> References: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> Message-ID: <0F1FE8FE-3E13-464D-98CC-D1A22FEF1F32@yahoo.com> Is there a good, easy to install and use Mac APRS igate/digi software for Lion. I find myself getting tired of playing with computers anymore. There is a good Mac client that can be installed easily from the app store called PocketPacket. I've tried Xastir but the maps seem to just crawl and don't see iGating. KI6ZQY From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Fri Aug 12 01:16:49 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 01:16:49 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <0F1FE8FE-3E13-464D-98CC-D1A22FEF1F32@yahoo.com> References: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> <0F1FE8FE-3E13-464D-98CC-D1A22FEF1F32@yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E44B741.2020006@aol.com> On 8/11/2011 11:27 PM, Larry LaBranche wrote: > Is there a good, easy to install and use Mac APRS igate/digi software for Lion. I find myself getting tired of playing with computers anymore. There is a good Mac client that can be installed easily from the app store called PocketPacket. I've tried Xastir but the maps seem to just crawl and don't see iGating. Xastir maps leave a lot to be desired, but it DOES igate/digi decently. AS far as I know, there is no truly-native Mackintosh APRS client except for the decades-out-of-date MacAPRS that was compiled for classic pre-System X Macs. Further, MacAPRS suffers from lack of any remotely current maps. Of course, you could always run a virtual machine loaded with Win98 or 2000 running Uiview or APRSICE on the Mac desktop. [Win98 and Win 2000 need only a fraction of the RAM and hard disk space required by WinXP, Vista or Win7. UIview works just fine on these older versions of Windows.] . > > KI6ZQY > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wizeight+aprssig at gmail.com Fri Aug 12 12:12:51 2011 From: wizeight+aprssig at gmail.com (Paul Vittorino) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:12:51 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <4E44B741.2020006@aol.com> References: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> <0F1FE8FE-3E13-464D-98CC-D1A22FEF1F32@yahoo.com> <4E44B741.2020006@aol.com> Message-ID: According to the wiki < http://info.aprs.net/index.php/Software#Apple_Mac_OS_X> there is a new APRS software for MacOS called PocketPacket. Please join the wiki and add any other Mac software you find. Paul On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Stephen H. Smith wrote: > On 8/11/2011 11:27 PM, Larry LaBranche wrote: > > Is there a good, easy to install and use Mac APRS igate/digi software for Lion. I find myself getting tired of playing with computers anymore. There is a good Mac client that can be installed easily from the app store called PocketPacket. I've tried Xastir but the maps seem to just crawl and don't see iGating. > > > Xastir maps leave a lot to be desired, but it DOES igate/digi decently. > AS far as I know, there is no truly-native Mackintosh APRS client except > for the decades-out-of-date MacAPRS that was compiled for classic pre-System > X Macs. Further, MacAPRS suffers from lack of any remotely current maps. > > Of course, you could always run a virtual machine loaded with Win98 or 2000 > running Uiview or APRSICE on the Mac desktop. [Win98 and Win 2000 need > only a fraction of the RAM and hard disk space required by WinXP, Vista or > Win7. UIview works just fine on these older versions of Windows.] > . > > KI6ZQY > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > > Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com > === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === > Skype: WA8LMF > Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net > > ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== > http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 > > *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** > http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm > > "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating > http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kf4lvz at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 13:40:19 2011 From: kf4lvz at yahoo.com (Alex Carver) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:40:19 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > From: "Stephen H. Smith" > On 8/11/2011 11:27 PM, Larry LaBranche wrote: > > Is there a good, easy to install and use Mac APRS > igate/digi software for Lion. I find myself getting tired of > playing with computers anymore. There is a good Mac client > that can be installed easily from the app store called > PocketPacket. I've tried Xastir but the maps seem to just > crawl and don't see iGating. > > Xastir maps leave a lot to be desired, but it DOES > igate/digi decently. You obviously haven't seen Xastir lately now that it can use Open Street Maps. The Xastir developers have done a ton of work and gotten some very nice mapping working in there now. TI/GER maps are still able to be used but the Open Street Maps provide full color, detailed maps at many different scales. From schu at schu.net Fri Aug 12 14:23:26 2011 From: schu at schu.net (Matthew Schumacher) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 10:23:26 -0800 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E456F9E.5030900@schu.net> I found xastir to be WAY too thick for a simple igate/repeater. I didn't want to run a head on my unix machine, nor did I want the overhead of vnc or some other remote control softare. After looking I found a nice little program called aprx. It's small and lightweight and does the job very well. It's pretty simple and should compile on any posix system, but I don't see any binaries for mac os. I figured I would be able to help you out and go ahead and compile it on my macbook, but quickly ran into apple red tape to get my hands on a compiler. I'll look into it later when I have time, but I do feel that this would be the best solution for you. Here is aprx running on one of my linux machines: USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND root 9547 0.0 0.0 20136 836 ? Ss Jul21 0:37 aprx root 9548 0.0 0.0 24356 336 ? S Jul21 0:07 aprx The documentation and config file is pretty easy to understand: http://wiki.ham.fi/Aprx.en schu From capdiamont at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 14:47:34 2011 From: capdiamont at yahoo.com (Larry LaBranche) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:47:34 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <05758B71-886B-44C4-80A3-C75C7ECEABA0@yahoo.com> I downloaded a binary of xastir from one of the listed links. I have a i7 iMac using Lion. I have have to walk away after any zooming, or movement of a few I tried, detailed maps. Looking at the cpu monitor, it is less then 1% of usage. I disabled all maps because of this. I did figure out how to do igating, just have to figure out my password, and connecting the radio. Looking through the docs, and email list, it only does fill in digi. Talked with PocketPacket folks, about making some igate/digi Mac software, and it is in their long range plans. -KI6ZQY 73 On Aug 12, 2011, at 10:40 AM, Alex Carver wrote: >> From: "Stephen H. Smith" >> On 8/11/2011 11:27 PM, Larry LaBranche wrote: >>> Is there a good, easy to install and use Mac APRS >> igate/digi software for Lion. I find myself getting tired of >> playing with computers anymore. There is a good Mac client >> that can be installed easily from the app store called >> PocketPacket. I've tried Xastir but the maps seem to just >> crawl and don't see iGating. >> >> Xastir maps leave a lot to be desired, but it DOES >> igate/digi decently. > > You obviously haven't seen Xastir lately now that it can use Open Street Maps. > > The Xastir developers have done a ton of work and gotten some very nice mapping working in there now. TI/GER maps are still able to be used but the Open Street Maps provide full color, detailed maps at many different scales. > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From capdiamont at yahoo.com Fri Aug 12 14:55:34 2011 From: capdiamont at yahoo.com (Larry LaBranche) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 11:55:34 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <4E456F9E.5030900@schu.net> References: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E456F9E.5030900@schu.net> Message-ID: I have a shuttle PC I tried using Mandrake on, but I think it has a hardware problem. I'm ready to chuck the thing out the shack window. I like light weight, but also like how well the PocketPacket for the Mac desktop was done. KI6ZQY 73 On Aug 12, 2011, at 11:23 AM, Matthew Schumacher wrote: > I found xastir to be WAY too thick for a simple igate/repeater. I > didn't want to run a head on my unix machine, nor did I want the > overhead of vnc or some other remote control softare. After looking I > found a nice little program called aprx. It's small and lightweight and > does the job very well. It's pretty simple and should compile on any > posix system, but I don't see any binaries for mac os. > > I figured I would be able to help you out and go ahead and compile it on > my macbook, but quickly ran into apple red tape to get my hands on a > compiler. I'll look into it later when I have time, but I do feel that > this would be the best solution for you. Here is aprx running on one of > my linux machines: > > USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND > root 9547 0.0 0.0 20136 836 ? Ss Jul21 0:37 aprx > root 9548 0.0 0.0 24356 336 ? S Jul21 0:07 aprx > > The documentation and config file is pretty easy to understand: > > http://wiki.ham.fi/Aprx.en > > schu > > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From gregg at wonderly.org Fri Aug 12 17:30:18 2011 From: gregg at wonderly.org (Gregg Wonderly) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 16:30:18 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <4E456F9E.5030900@schu.net> References: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E456F9E.5030900@schu.net> Message-ID: <4E459B6A.4070005@wonderly.org> On 8/12/2011 1:23 PM, Matthew Schumacher wrote: > I figured I would be able to help you out and go ahead and compile it on > my macbook, but quickly ran into apple red tape to get my hands on a > compiler. With Lion, you can now download XCode from the Mac App store. Is that the version you tried to use? Gregg Wonderly W5GGW From pisymbol at gmail.com Fri Aug 12 18:39:32 2011 From: pisymbol at gmail.com (Alexander Sack) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 18:39:32 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <4E459B6A.4070005@wonderly.org> References: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E456F9E.5030900@schu.net> <4E459B6A.4070005@wonderly.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 5:30 PM, Gregg Wonderly wrote: > On 8/12/2011 1:23 PM, Matthew Schumacher wrote: >> >> I figured I would be able to help you out and go ahead and compile it on >> my macbook, but quickly ran into apple red tape to get my hands on a >> compiler. > > With Lion, you can now download XCode from the Mac App store. ?Is that the > version you tried to use? > > Gregg Wonderly > I am working on a cross platform iGate software (its going slow because I am very busy at work and APRS is new to me). In the meantime, you can use Xastir. Download MacPorts here: http://www.macports.org/ Then at the command line (Terminal application) sudo port install xastir Then start it in /opt/local/bin/xastir etc. -aps (KC2ZSX) From esarfl at gmail.com Fri Aug 12 19:22:57 2011 From: esarfl at gmail.com (Tom Hayward) Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2011 17:22:57 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: References: <1313170819.72153.YahooMailClassic@web130111.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4E456F9E.5030900@schu.net> <4E459B6A.4070005@wonderly.org> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 16:39, Alexander Sack wrote: > In the meantime, you can use Xastir. ?Download MacPorts here: > > http://www.macports.org/ > > Then at the command line (Terminal application) > > sudo port install xastir > > Then start it in /opt/local/bin/xastir etc. > > -aps (KC2ZSX) There's an easier way: the Xastir .app (thanks to Jeremy, NH6Z). Just download, drag to Applications, and run. http://www.nh6z.net/Amatuer_Radio_Station_NH6Z/Other_Peoples_Software.html Tom KD7LXL From bruninga at usna.edu Sun Aug 14 13:19:12 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga ) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 13:19:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] VHF Mountain-toppers Unite! Message-ID: <201108141719.020366@mp6.usna.edu> VHF Mountain-Toppers Unite! (Revised to be IAW contst rules) For the weekend of 10-11 Sept, (same as the VHF QSO party), a cadre of APRS mobiles and portables is going to man 15 or more mountain tops along the Appalachians from Maine to Georgia (and encourage others anywhere else in the country where mountain-topping is popular). Their APRS radio will be on the HamIM APRS frequency of 147.585 (far from the weak signal band) and will be enabled for APRS digipeating. Not only will they be able to see all the multi-op stations and direct contest rovers out there, but they will also digipeat any such multi-operator station beacons to others to provide a nice APRS tactical display. (Single-Op Contest Rovers are prohibited from digipeating their packets by contest rules, but muiti-operator stations can). These APRS packets have nothing to do with the contest or scoring, but are an opportunity to test our skills with ad-hoc VHF networking while there are lots of folks out playing radio at good VHF locations. Everyone on the hilltops and valleys gets a great view of where everyone is located. This kind of ad-hoc system will use the Shadow APRS Emergency backup settings of a TEMPn-N network as follows: FREQUENCY: 147.585 (the HamIM APRS frequency) SYMBOL: Rover or Portable (tent), etc RATE: Every 5 minutes PATH: TEMP7-7 <== MULTI-OP AND NON-SCORE PARTICIPANTS: PATH: RFONLY <== SINGLE-OP ROVER PARTICIPANTS: DIGIPEATER: Everyone except single-operator score-submitting participants are encouraged to enable their radio's TEMPn-N digipeater: UITRACE TEMP DIGI ON With these settings, the ad-hoc TEMPn-N network is self-supporting. Every well situated station (mountaintop or multi-op contest stations, not single-op Rovers) with a D700 or KPC-3 is enabled for digipeating. These last two digipeating set-up commands need to be permanently set in the Radio TNC via the serial port prior to the event. (The D710 now has these in the front panel menu and default to always ON, but older D700 radios will need to be set via the serial port). By making these settings permanent in all APRS radios, then, any radio, any time, can serve as an ad-hoc digi for others on demand, for anyone using the TEMPn-N path. For details and background please see: http://aprs.org/rovers.html Make sure you test your station before the event! Good luck in the Contest! But remember the rules: 1) Single-op rovers are not allowed to use a digipeating path to extend their visibility, nor to digipeat others. 2) Multi-op stations may use APRS as noted above and may digipeat and be digipeaters and enjoy the view. 3) Anyone else (who does not submit scores) has no restrictions on how they use APRS during this event and are welcome to get their feet wet in VHF/UHF contesting too. Bob, WB4APR From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Sun Aug 14 14:30:41 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:30:41 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] VHF Mountain-toppers Unite! In-Reply-To: <201108141719.020366@mp6.usna.edu> References: <201108141719.020366@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: <4E481451.8000506@aol.com> On 8/14/2011 1:19 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote: > > > For details and background please see: > http://aprs.org/rovers.html > > Make sure you test your station before the event! > > Good luck in the Contest! But remember the rules: > > 1) Single-op rovers are not allowed to use a digipeating path to extend their visibility, nor to digipeat others. > > 2) Multi-op stations may use APRS as noted above and may digipeat and be digipeaters and enjoy the view. > > 3) Anyone else (who does not submit scores) has no restrictions on how they use APRS during this event and are welcome to get their feet wet in VHF/UHF contesting too. > > Why are single-op stations not to use a digi path? I assume completely separate radios/frequencies are used for scoring in the actual contest, so what's the problem? WA8LMF, who no longer has any real mountains available as I am living in MI rather than CA.......... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths From ldeffenb at homeside.to Sun Aug 14 14:43:11 2011 From: ldeffenb at homeside.to (Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:43:11 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] VHF Mountain-toppers Unite! In-Reply-To: <4E481451.8000506@aol.com> References: <201108141719.020366@mp6.usna.edu> <4E481451.8000506@aol.com> Message-ID: <4E48173F.8010303@homeside.to> On 8/14/2011 2:30 PM, Stephen H. Smith wrote: > > Why are single-op stations not to use a digi path? I assume > completely separate radios/frequencies are used for scoring in the > actual contest, so what's the problem? I'm guessing here that it has something to do with "self-spotting" or "spotter assistance"? A multi-op station is allowed to have assistance in locating spots. A single op station is expected to do it all alone, which would imply no digipeating? Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 > WA8LMF, who no longer has any real mountains available as I am > living in MI rather than CA.......... PS. And I just discovered that I'll be in the NC mountains near the AT for a wedding on September 10! Now, to see how much gear I can pack along and how to slip away in the afternoon without being missed.... From bruninga at usna.edu Sun Aug 14 14:45:36 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga ) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:45:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] VHF Mountain-toppers Unite! In-Reply-To: <4E481451.8000506@aol.com> References: <201108141719.020366@mp6.usna.edu> <4E481451.8000506@aol.com> Message-ID: <201108141845.020370@mp6.usna.edu> >> 1) Single-op rovers are not allowed to use a >> digipeating path to extend their visibility, >> nor to digipeat others. > Why are single-op stations not to use a digi path? > I assume completely separate radios/frequencies > are used for scoring in the actual contest, so > what's the problem? That's how Ev Tupis explained it to me, since he went through battles with the contesters before with his Propnet and now HamIM interests. The ARRL considers getting information about where others are located via a network to be cheating (for single op stations).. Apparently for multi-ops stations, you acn even use the internet... Bob, Wb4APR From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Sun Aug 14 14:53:17 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 14:53:17 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: References: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> <0F1FE8FE-3E13-464D-98CC-D1A22FEF1F32@yahoo.com> <4E44B741.2020006@aol.com> Message-ID: <4E48199D.408@aol.com> On 8/12/2011 12:12 PM, Paul Vittorino wrote: > According to the wiki > there is a new APRS > software for MacOS called PocketPacket. Please join the wiki and add any > other Mac software you find. > > Paul > > On Fri, Aug 12, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Stephen H. Smith > wrote: > > On 8/11/2011 11:27 PM, Larry LaBranche wrote: >> Is there a good, easy to install and use Mac APRS igate/digi software for Lion. I find myself getting tired of playing with computers anymore. There is a good Mac client that can be installed easily from the app store called PocketPacket. I've tried Xastir but the maps seem to just crawl and don't see iGating. > > Xastir maps leave a lot to be desired, but it DOES igate/digi > decently. AS far as I know, there is no truly-native Mackintosh APRS > client except for the decades-out-of-date MacAPRS that was compiled for > classic pre-System X Macs. Further, MacAPRS suffers from lack of any > remotely current maps. > I didn't realize that "Pocket Packet" is an actual APRS app. The name is very misleading! I had assumed it was a generic packet app intended for classic pre-APRS connected packet. I just looked at it's website at: . It appears to be a full-blown APRS app with a built-in soft modem that uses the sound system as a TNC, and mapping capability. It is apparently available in a version for the iPad which sounds really intriguing. [I have never seen the point of trying to cram mapping-dependent APRS apps into smart phones with their itty-bitty screens, but the iPad screen is big enough to make mapping usable.] Has anyone here used it? (I don't have any Mac or iOS hardware -- else I would try it) What Internet mapping service does it use? Do you have to remain tethered to the Internet for maps, or is there some way to cache maps for use away from an Internet connection. [In the US, there are 10s of THOUSANDS of miles of roads with absolutely no Internet coverage, either WiFi or cellular, once you get off the Interstate Highway System, especially in the West.] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Sun Aug 14 15:02:57 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:02:57 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] VHF Mountain-toppers Unite! In-Reply-To: <201108141845.020370@mp6.usna.edu> References: <201108141719.020366@mp6.usna.edu> <4E481451.8000506@aol.com> <201108141845.020370@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: <4E481BE1.4030801@aol.com> On 8/14/2011 2:45 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote: > That's how Ev Tupis explained it to me, since he went through battles with > the contesters before with his Propnet and now HamIM interests. The ARRL > considers getting information about where others are located via a network to > be cheating (for single op stations).. Apparently for multi-ops stations, you > acn even use the internet... Bob, Wb4APR How does this tie in for normal Dxing and contesting from fixed stations? I always have wondered about the legitimacy/ethics of packet cluster VHF DX-spotting networks for DXCC, Sweepstakes, etc. (i.e. having others tell you that DX stations are available and where to look.) I suppose the ultimate extension of this would be to parse the DX spots by computer & pass the frequency to your HF rig (I think the TNC firmware in the Kenwood TS-2000 can do this now), and then work the CW exchange automatically with a sound-card-based app. You wouldn't even have to be present or worry about taking time off for the contest. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths From bruninga at usna.edu Sun Aug 14 17:52:52 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga ) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 17:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] ET - Email Home Message-ID: <201108142152.020411@mp6.usna.edu> > As far as SATs go, what's presently flying or > near term planned for launch that will serve > as a message relay for nts type messages? Since all of the packet digipeating satellties can also transparently carry email, it was interesting the other day when Nick Pugh K5QXJ suggested that not only can APRS satellites EMAIL their telemetry directly to their makers, the controllers can also send commands directly back to the satellites via conventional APRS mail as well! For a satellite to email its telemetry directly to a callsign (for delivery by any worldwide email device) all it has to do is format its telemetry like any other APRS one-line email. Here is the format: PCSAT>APRS::EMAIL :WB4APR at ARRL.NET I'm OK: V=12, I=140, T=30C In this case PCSAT sends an email to WB4APR via his ARRL address with the words "I'm OK"... and then whatever other telemetry the satellite wants to include. This works this way because the global APRS system will take any packet anywhere that is addressed to "EMAIL" and then wrap it up into standard EMAIL and send it via the internet. Since all IGates on the planet including the ones that are monitioring the satellites automatically do this, then the system is in place. For the satellite operator to send back a command to the satellite this too is aoutamitcally handled in all existing IGate software. If an APRS message is seen anywhere on the planet addressed to any callsign, in this case, the callsign of a small satellite, then any IGate that is IN RANGE of the satellite at any instant (and has heard it) will attempt to transmit that packet onto the satellite uplink in real time. No one has done this yet I dont think, because most Satellite IGates have mostly just been used for downlink, and no one has tried this uplink before. The one thing that would have to change is the TIME-OUT time in the "has-been-heard" list of the IGates. As it is, an IGate will try to return a message to another callsign if it has been heard in the last 30 minutes or so. For satellites, we would want this to time out after only 10 minutes, since a LEO will be out of range by then. But it is possible. Might be fun. Bob, Wb4APR From jason at ke4nyv.com Sun Aug 14 18:07:11 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 15:07:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] APRS-IS Feed Dropout? Message-ID: <1313359631.59103.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Will a feed connected to APRS-IS be dropped off if it does not feed any packets after a specified amount of time? Testing an iGate and it seems to get auto-disconnected after it doesn't feed anything for about 30 minutes or so. This is usually the case when I have the radio disconnected and just testing things on the IP side. Thanks in advance! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com From ldeffenb at homeside.to Sun Aug 14 18:30:27 2011 From: ldeffenb at homeside.to (Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)) Date: Sun, 14 Aug 2011 18:30:27 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS-IS Feed Dropout? In-Reply-To: <1313359631.59103.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <1313359631.59103.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E484C83.4050206@homeside.to> Negative. I've got a few read-only instances on the APRS-IS and they don't get dropped at all. I can see a few reasons for this to happen, though. 1) You must read the socket, even if you're not expecting any data from the APRS-IS. The servers send out heart-beat messages on all active connections. 2) If you're not sending a #user xxxxx pass yyyyy (at least a -1), most servers will eventually disconnect you. But this is usually far more quickly than 30 minutes in my experience. 3) If you send the same callsign-SSID to a single server, it will disconnect the existing connection as soon as a new connection sends in a matching #user. This is to prevent a broken program (or user) from hogging connections on the server from a single "station". This is by far the most frequent reason for me to get disconnected when I get sloppy with my -SSIDs. Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 On 8/14/2011 6:07 PM, Jason Rausch wrote: > Will a feed connected to APRS-IS be dropped off if it does not feed any packets after a specified amount of time? Testing an iGate and it seems to get auto-disconnected after it doesn't feed anything for about 30 minutes or so. This is usually the case when I have the radio disconnected and just testing things on the IP side. > > Thanks in advance! > > Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > RPC Electronics, LLC > www.rpc-electronics.com > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > From duffy at wb8nut.com Mon Aug 15 08:05:17 2011 From: duffy at wb8nut.com (Amateur Radio WB8NUT) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 08:05:17 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Mac Lion APRS iGate software? In-Reply-To: <4E48199D.408@aol.com> References: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> <0F1FE8FE-3E13-464D-98CC-D1A22FEF1F32@yahoo.com> <4E44B741.2020006@aol.com> <4E48199D.408@aol.com> Message-ID: <4E490B7D.9010106@wb8nut.com> I downloaded and set-up PocketPacket on the Mac the other day. For $4.99 it was reasonable enough to give it a try. Ran the application for a less than a day and it locked up and failed to respond. Also, it cannot connect to AGW Packet Engine. Cannot seem to put labels in the icons shown on the map unless you click on the icon, then a pop-up box shows up to identify the station. On messaging, it does not indicate if message received by the other station. In summary, really basic and needs a lot of work to be a serious APRS program for the Mac and the Mac needs a really good native APRS application - including digipeating and igate. JMHO Duffy www.wb8nut.com On 8/14/11 2:53 PM, Stephen H. Smith wrote: > On 8/12/2011 12:12 PM, Paul Vittorino wrote: >> According to the wiki >> there is a >> new APRS software for MacOS called PocketPacket. Please join the wiki >> and add any other Mac software you find. >> >> Paul >> >> O From k2sar at aol.com Mon Aug 15 18:03:52 2011 From: k2sar at aol.com (k2sar at aol.com) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 18:03:52 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] advice programing new D-710 Message-ID: <8CE29AE5A1D4153-1250-2202@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Hi! I have a new D-710 and would like to get advice from the group on programing it. Also I have a AvMap-4 that I used with a D-700. Will the AvMap-4 work with the D-710 and if so do I program the AvMap-4 and D-710 the same as I did the D-700? All help will be appreciated 73 K2SAR, Keith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ldeffenb at homeside.to Mon Aug 15 18:16:23 2011 From: ldeffenb at homeside.to (Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)) Date: Mon, 15 Aug 2011 18:16:23 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] advice programing new D-710 In-Reply-To: <8CE29AE5A1D4153-1250-2202@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE29AE5A1D4153-1250-2202@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E499AB7.100@homeside.to> You may get better advice from users in the D710/V71 Yahoo group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TM-D710_TM-V71/ Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 On 8/15/2011 6:03 PM, k2sar at aol.com wrote: > Hi! > I have a new D-710 and would like to get advice from the group on > programing it. > Also I have a AvMap-4 that I used with a D-700. Will the AvMap-4 work > with the D-710 and if so do I program the AvMap-4 and D-710 the same > as I did the D-700? > All help will be appreciated > 73 K2SAR, Keith -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bruninga at usna.edu Tue Aug 16 08:52:35 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 08:52:35 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] advice programing new D-710 In-Reply-To: <8CE29AE5A1D4153-1250-2202@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE29AE5A1D4153-1250-2202@webmail-m090.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <002f01cc5c13$5ecd7940$1c686bc0$@edu> > I have a new D-710 and would like to get > advice from the group on programing it. Besides the obvious... 1) Find the menu and set Display Always so you can see every packet as it comes in. 2) Be sure to use STATUS *5 so that your voice frequency is included in your packets. 3) Be sure to set the 5 memory channels for APRS as shown on the aprs.org web page. (and operate normally on channel 2) Good luck Bob, WB4APR From jason at ke4nyv.com Tue Aug 16 19:43:00 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Tue, 16 Aug 2011 16:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! Message-ID: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Introducing the YagTracker: APRS Tracker and Mobile Terminal! This is a brand new device that combines a tracker and fully functional display options. We will start taking pre-orders soon. We are working with a contract builder to produce these units quickly, so the wait should not be long! Here is a basic website with pictures, video and other details: http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com From rlove31 at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 07:08:56 2011 From: rlove31 at gmail.com (Randy Love) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 07:08:56 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Didn't see the manual for it in the download link. Could you double check to make sure it's out there. I'm wondering about the interface requirements. Randy WF5X On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Jason Rausch wrote: > Introducing the YagTracker: APRS Tracker and Mobile Terminal! > > This is a brand new device that combines a tracker and fully functional > display options. We will start taking pre-orders soon. We are working with a > contract builder to produce these units quickly, so the wait should not be > long! Here is a basic website with pictures, video and other details: > > http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php > > Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > RPC Electronics, LLC > www.rpc-electronics.com > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at ke4nyv.com Wed Aug 17 08:16:06 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 05:16:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313583366.32104.YahooMailClassic@web1105.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Randy, A manual is being worked on.? Right now I only have pictures and a short video posted.? More details will be coming soon. Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com --- On Wed, 8/17/11, Randy Love wrote: From: Randy Love Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! To: jason at ke4nyv.com, "TAPR APRS Mailing List" Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 7:08 AM Didn't see the manual for it in the download link. Could you double check to make sure it's out there. I'm wondering about the interface requirements. Randy WF5X On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Jason Rausch wrote: Introducing the YagTracker: APRS Tracker and Mobile Terminal! This is a brand new device that combines a tracker and fully functional display options. We will start taking pre-orders soon. We are working with a contract builder to produce these units quickly, so the wait should not be long! Here is a basic website with pictures, video and other details: http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rxtech_03 at yahoo.com Wed Aug 17 09:07:54 2011 From: rxtech_03 at yahoo.com (Allan May) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:07:54 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! Message-ID: Good morning, The device looks awesome!!! I was wondering if that had an internal gps or do you hebe to connect one to it. Any info would be.great, Allan May, WD4 ITE Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T Jason Rausch wrote: >Randy, > >A manual is being worked on.? Right now I only have pictures and a short video posted.? More details will be coming soon. > >Jason Rausch - KE4NYV >RPC Electronics, LLC >www.rpc-electronics.com > >--- On Wed, 8/17/11, Randy Love wrote: > >From: Randy Love >Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! >To: jason at ke4nyv.com, "TAPR APRS Mailing List" >Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 7:08 AM > >Didn't see the manual for it in the download link. Could you double check to make sure it's out there. >I'm wondering about the interface requirements. > >Randy >WF5X > >On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Jason Rausch wrote: > >Introducing the YagTracker: APRS Tracker and Mobile Terminal! > > > >This is a brand new device that combines a tracker and fully functional display options. We will start taking pre-orders soon. We are working with a contract builder to produce these units quickly, so the wait should not be long! Here is a basic website with pictures, video and other details: > > > > >http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php > > > >Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > >RPC Electronics, LLC > >www.rpc-electronics.com > > > >_______________________________________________ > >aprssig mailing list > >aprssig at tapr.org > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > > > >_______________________________________________ >aprssig mailing list >aprssig at tapr.org >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From jason at ke4nyv.com Wed Aug 17 09:26:50 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 06:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1313587610.61669.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> All, I'm sorry that my initial post was short and not very detailed. I was being called to dinner...if that is an ok excuse! This project is a collaboration between us (RPC Electronics, LLC) and Remi VE2YAG. He is the master behind the firmware. We re-designed the hardware to a mass-production form factor. We are also doing most of the on-road testing and so far this device is a dream to use. Remi is very open to firmware suggestions and we will eventually have a forum where users can make suggestions directly to him. He asks that people do not directly email him with support/firmware requests. Here are some more details and I will follow up with more, later this week: - 128x64 Graphical LCD Display - Built in 1200 baud modem (codec powered) - Requires external GPS (4800 baud, serial) - Supports $GPWPL waypoint output string (map stations on GPS) - Holds a station list of last 50 heard stations in EEPROM - Main screen can recall back to the last 6 heard stations - Station list sorting by last heard or distance - GPS Display shows which sats are heard and signal strength - Tracking feature to track back to a station/waypoint - Digipeat histogram shows digipeat "health" of your own station and others - Map plot screen plots all in station list - Map plot has "show callsign" feature to see who is who - Map plot can be oriented "North Up" or auto-rotate in direction of travel - Full messaging with on-board keyboard-like layout - Messaging "chat" screen for quick replies - Stores up to 10 canned messages (can be edited by user) - Built-in graphical scope helps tune incoming audio for packet modem - Firmware is not open source, but will be free for upgrading - Firmware loads through simple terminal XMODEM protocol Some future features: - Garmin binary protocol - Kenwood protocol - More map display enhancements More pictures and details to come! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com --- On Wed, 8/17/11, Allan May wrote: > From: Allan May > Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! > To: jason at ke4nyv.com, "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 9:07 AM > Good morning, > The device looks awesome!!! I was wondering if that had an > internal gps or do you hebe to connect one to it. Any info > would be.great, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ???Allan May, WD4 ITE > > Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T > > Jason Rausch > wrote: > > >Randy, > > > >A manual is being worked on.? Right now I only have > pictures and a short video posted.? More details will be > coming soon. > > > >Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > >RPC Electronics, LLC > >www.rpc-electronics.com > > > >--- On Wed, 8/17/11, Randy Love > wrote: > > > >From: Randy Love > >Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The > YagTracker! > >To: jason at ke4nyv.com, > "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > >Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 7:08 AM > > > >Didn't see the manual for it in the download link. > Could you double check to make sure it's out there. > >I'm wondering about the interface requirements. > > > >Randy > >WF5X > > > >On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Jason Rausch > wrote: > > > >Introducing the YagTracker: APRS Tracker and Mobile > Terminal! > > > > > > > >This is a brand new device that combines a tracker and > fully functional display options. We will start taking > pre-orders soon. We are working with a contract builder to > produce these units quickly, so the wait should not be long! > Here is a basic website with pictures, video and other > details: > > > > > > > > > >http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php > > > > > > > >Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > > > >RPC Electronics, LLC > > > >www.rpc-electronics.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >aprssig mailing list > > > >aprssig at tapr.org > > > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >aprssig mailing list > >aprssig at tapr.org > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > From rudy at ve3bdr.com Wed Aug 17 09:37:02 2011 From: rudy at ve3bdr.com (Rudy Benner) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 09:37:02 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <1313587610.61669.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <1313587610.61669.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <0ED1D786755D41D2BFA1C2AD9CC2EA1A@RudyBennerPC> A call to dinner is ALWAYS a good excuse, especially when utter by SWMBO ve3bdr -----Original Message----- From: Jason Rausch Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:26 AM To: TAPR APRS Mailing List ; Allan May Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! All, I'm sorry that my initial post was short and not very detailed. I was being called to dinner...if that is an ok excuse! This project is a collaboration between us (RPC Electronics, LLC) and Remi VE2YAG. He is the master behind the firmware. We re-designed the hardware to a mass-production form factor. We are also doing most of the on-road testing and so far this device is a dream to use. Remi is very open to firmware suggestions and we will eventually have a forum where users can make suggestions directly to him. He asks that people do not directly email him with support/firmware requests. Here are some more details and I will follow up with more, later this week: - 128x64 Graphical LCD Display - Built in 1200 baud modem (codec powered) - Requires external GPS (4800 baud, serial) - Supports $GPWPL waypoint output string (map stations on GPS) - Holds a station list of last 50 heard stations in EEPROM - Main screen can recall back to the last 6 heard stations - Station list sorting by last heard or distance - GPS Display shows which sats are heard and signal strength - Tracking feature to track back to a station/waypoint - Digipeat histogram shows digipeat "health" of your own station and others - Map plot screen plots all in station list - Map plot has "show callsign" feature to see who is who - Map plot can be oriented "North Up" or auto-rotate in direction of travel - Full messaging with on-board keyboard-like layout - Messaging "chat" screen for quick replies - Stores up to 10 canned messages (can be edited by user) - Built-in graphical scope helps tune incoming audio for packet modem - Firmware is not open source, but will be free for upgrading - Firmware loads through simple terminal XMODEM protocol Some future features: - Garmin binary protocol - Kenwood protocol - More map display enhancements More pictures and details to come! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com --- On Wed, 8/17/11, Allan May wrote: > From: Allan May > Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! > To: jason at ke4nyv.com, "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 9:07 AM > Good morning, > The device looks awesome!!! I was wondering if that had an > internal gps or do you hebe to connect one to it. Any info > would be.great, > > Allan May, WD4 ITE > > Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T > > Jason Rausch > wrote: > > >Randy, > > > >A manual is being worked on. Right now I only have > pictures and a short video posted. More details will be > coming soon. > > > >Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > >RPC Electronics, LLC > >www.rpc-electronics.com > > > >--- On Wed, 8/17/11, Randy Love > wrote: > > > >From: Randy Love > >Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The > YagTracker! > >To: jason at ke4nyv.com, > "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > >Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 7:08 AM > > > >Didn't see the manual for it in the download link. > Could you double check to make sure it's out there. > >I'm wondering about the interface requirements. > > > >Randy > >WF5X > > > >On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Jason Rausch > wrote: > > > >Introducing the YagTracker: APRS Tracker and Mobile > Terminal! > > > > > > > >This is a brand new device that combines a tracker and > fully functional display options. We will start taking > pre-orders soon. We are working with a contract builder to > produce these units quickly, so the wait should not be long! > Here is a basic website with pictures, video and other > details: > > > > > > > > > >http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php > > > > > > > >Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > > > >RPC Electronics, LLC > > > >www.rpc-electronics.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >aprssig mailing list > > > >aprssig at tapr.org > > > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >aprssig mailing list > >aprssig at tapr.org > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From kd4moj-lists at embarqmail.com Wed Aug 17 10:57:30 2011 From: kd4moj-lists at embarqmail.com (Doug Ferrell) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 10:57:30 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <1313587610.61669.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <844779603.241239.1313593050853.JavaMail.root@md06.embarq.synacor.com> Hey jason... how about some kind of keyboard interface for messaging... that would be sweet! ...DOUG KD4MOJ From bwebster at wirelessmapping.com Wed Aug 17 12:04:19 2011 From: bwebster at wirelessmapping.com (Brian Webster) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:04:19 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <1313587610.61669.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <1313587610.61669.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <013401cc5cf7$52f6b840$f8e428c0$@wirelessmapping.com> It would be awesome if you could integrate Bluetooth for GPS, serial and keyboard communications. Thank You, Brian N2KGC -----Original Message----- From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of Jason Rausch Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2011 9:27 AM To: TAPR APRS Mailing List; Allan May Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! All, I'm sorry that my initial post was short and not very detailed. I was being called to dinner...if that is an ok excuse! This project is a collaboration between us (RPC Electronics, LLC) and Remi VE2YAG. He is the master behind the firmware. We re-designed the hardware to a mass-production form factor. We are also doing most of the on-road testing and so far this device is a dream to use. Remi is very open to firmware suggestions and we will eventually have a forum where users can make suggestions directly to him. He asks that people do not directly email him with support/firmware requests. Here are some more details and I will follow up with more, later this week: - 128x64 Graphical LCD Display - Built in 1200 baud modem (codec powered) - Requires external GPS (4800 baud, serial) - Supports $GPWPL waypoint output string (map stations on GPS) - Holds a station list of last 50 heard stations in EEPROM - Main screen can recall back to the last 6 heard stations - Station list sorting by last heard or distance - GPS Display shows which sats are heard and signal strength - Tracking feature to track back to a station/waypoint - Digipeat histogram shows digipeat "health" of your own station and others - Map plot screen plots all in station list - Map plot has "show callsign" feature to see who is who - Map plot can be oriented "North Up" or auto-rotate in direction of travel - Full messaging with on-board keyboard-like layout - Messaging "chat" screen for quick replies - Stores up to 10 canned messages (can be edited by user) - Built-in graphical scope helps tune incoming audio for packet modem - Firmware is not open source, but will be free for upgrading - Firmware loads through simple terminal XMODEM protocol Some future features: - Garmin binary protocol - Kenwood protocol - More map display enhancements More pictures and details to come! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com --- On Wed, 8/17/11, Allan May wrote: > From: Allan May > Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! > To: jason at ke4nyv.com, "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 9:07 AM Good morning, The device > looks awesome!!! I was wondering if that had an internal gps or do you > hebe to connect one to it. Any info would be.great, > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > ? ???Allan May, WD4 ITE > > Sent from my Samsung Captivate(tm) on AT&T > > Jason Rausch > wrote: > > >Randy, > > > >A manual is being worked on.? Right now I only have > pictures and a short video posted.? More details will be coming soon. > > > >Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > >RPC Electronics, LLC > >www.rpc-electronics.com > > > >--- On Wed, 8/17/11, Randy Love > wrote: > > > >From: Randy Love > >Subject: Re: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The > YagTracker! > >To: jason at ke4nyv.com, > "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > >Date: Wednesday, August 17, 2011, 7:08 AM > > > >Didn't see the manual for it in the download link. > Could you double check to make sure it's out there. > >I'm wondering about the interface requirements. > > > >Randy > >WF5X > > > >On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 7:43 PM, Jason Rausch > wrote: > > > >Introducing the YagTracker: APRS Tracker and Mobile > Terminal! > > > > > > > >This is a brand new device that combines a tracker and > fully functional display options. We will start taking pre-orders > soon. We are working with a contract builder to produce these units > quickly, so the wait should not be long! > Here is a basic website with pictures, video and other > details: > > > > > > > > > >http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php > > > > > > > >Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > > > >RPC Electronics, LLC > > > >www.rpc-electronics.com > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > >aprssig mailing list > > > >aprssig at tapr.org > > > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >aprssig mailing list > >aprssig at tapr.org > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From kc9gqr at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 12:08:09 2011 From: kc9gqr at gmail.com (Bradley Haney) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 11:08:09 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: aS SOON AS they can be ordered i will be ordering 1 for our van THANK YOU On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 6:43 PM, Jason Rausch wrote: > Introducing the YagTracker: APRS Tracker and Mobile Terminal! > > This is a brand new device that combines a tracker and fully functional > display options. We will start taking pre-orders soon. We are working with a > contract builder to produce these units quickly, so the wait should not be > long! Here is a basic website with pictures, video and other details: > > http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php > > Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > RPC Electronics, LLC > www.rpc-electronics.com > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Wed Aug 17 14:12:50 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:12:50 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: References: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E4C04A2.7080906@aol.com> So the YagTracker is functionally equivalent to the Kenwood RCD-710 (control-head of the TM-D710 sold separately)? I.e. all-in-one APRS modem/terminal minus the GPS that you connect to the TX audio/RX audio/PTT of an existing radio. (But hopefully minus the screwball 8 VDC power requirement of the Kenwood head!) Will TX tone levels be high enough (i.e. capable of line level output) to drive a 6-pin mini-DIN data port, rather than just millivolt mic jack level? Since the YagTracker would probably be used on top of the dash as a sort of "heads-up" display with a clear view of the sky (but does NOT include an internal GPS receiver), it would be a natural for the Green Light Labs compact GPS add-on for the D710 head. Could suitable connector position/pinout be provided to make adding the Green Light GPS a plug-and-play proposition; i.e. provide an RJ-45 jack with same pinout as Kenwood mic jack to provide power for the GPS? You mention the following bullet-list features: - Map plot screen plots all in station list - Map plot has "show callsign" feature to see who is who - Map plot can be oriented "North Up" or auto-rotate in direction of travel Does this mean the device has some sort of internal mapping capability, or does this mean when used with an external display GPS with GPWPL capability? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths From ldeffenb at homeside.to Wed Aug 17 14:23:24 2011 From: ldeffenb at homeside.to (Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 14:23:24 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <4E4C04A2.7080906@aol.com> References: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4E4C04A2.7080906@aol.com> Message-ID: <4E4C071C.3090903@homeside.to> On 8/17/2011 2:12 PM, Stephen H. Smith wrote: > You mention the following bullet-list features: > > - Map plot screen plots all in station list > - Map plot has "show callsign" feature to see who is who > - Map plot can be oriented "North Up" or auto-rotate in direction of > travel > > > Does this mean the device has some sort of internal mapping > capability, or does this mean when used with an external display GPS > with GPWPL capability? Not to steal Jason's thunder, but if you watch the video clip, you'll see that the "map" (at least currently) is a circle showing the positions of the stations from the station list relative to your current position which is apparently at the center of the circle. He goes on to mention the GPWPL as a separate feature so if you have a map-displaying device that handles this NMEA sentence, then you'll have that in addition to the internal display's "map". Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ From w9rxr_ at rlburns.net Wed Aug 17 15:17:48 2011 From: w9rxr_ at rlburns.net (Bob Burns W9RXR) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:17:48 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <4E4C04A2.7080906@aol.com> References: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4E4C04A2.7080906@aol.com> Message-ID: <20110817151748.13341wlhs8rhoct8@rlburns.net> Quoting "Stephen H. Smith" : > Since the YagTracker would probably be used on top of the dash as a > sort of "heads-up" display with a clear view of the sky (but does > NOT include an internal GPS receiver), it would be a natural for the > Green Light Labs compact GPS add-on for the D710 head. The case appears to be plastic. If there's enough room inside the case, you could probably mount a stamp-sized GPS receiver inside the case and permanently wire it to the GPS inputs. The APRS trackers I built using the Argent Data T2-301 use one of these GPS receivers and I hot-glued it to the inside of a Pelican case. Works fine. Bob... From jason at ke4nyv.com Wed Aug 17 15:23:04 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 12:23:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <4E4C04A2.7080906@aol.com> Message-ID: <1313608984.23637.YahooMailClassic@web1111.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Stephen, all good questions... > So the YagTracker is functionally > equivalent to the Kenwood RCD-710 (control-head of the > TM-D710 sold separately)? Yes, in fact I feel that the YagTracker is far superior in function. Hopefully my answers to your questions below will help me to convince you of that. The only draw back is the lack of 9600 baud operation, but I have yet to hear anyone really balk at that. > I.e. all-in-one APRS > modem/terminal minus the GPS that you connect to the TX > audio/RX audio/PTT of an existing radio. Yes, the GPS is external. There is full two way coms with the GPS. NMEA in for GPS datum, as well as $GPWPL output for waypoint plotting to a compatable mapping GPS. Just about any serial Garmin, Maggelan and so on will work. My personal testing is with a Garmin Map176c and eTrex legend. These are older units, but still valuable for testing these features. I have talked with Remi about the possibility of adding support for the Garmin binary protocol (ie. Nuvi 350 support) and also the Kenwood proprietary protocol. This would cover the extra features in the AvMap units, but the AvMaps also understand the $GPWPL strings, so those users can at least utilize that function until the Kenwood support is added to the firmware. > (But hopefully minus the screwball 8 VDC power requirement of the > Kenwood head!) Wide voltage input range. 9-24VDC This means standard 12-13.8VDC in a car will power it just fine. > Will TX tone levels be high enough (i.e. capable of line > level output) to drive a 6-pin mini-DIN data port, rather > than just millivolt mic jack level? Yes! In fact ALL of my test units are wired up this way, through a mini-din packet port and so far the results have been excellent. Even when I have a longer run, such as 10' from radio to YagTracker, the decode rate is very good. The built in audio pre-amp is fully user settable and the on-screen scope allows you to see your audio coming in and where the peak is at full packet audio vs. white noise levels. I'll be posting some pictures of this on the website tonight. > Since the YagTracker would probably be used on top of the > dash as a sort of "heads-up" display with a clear view of > the sky (but does NOT include an internal GPS receiver), it > would be a natural for the Green Light Labs compact GPS > add-on for the D710 head. > Could suitable connector > position/pinout be provided to make adding the Green Light > GPS a plug-and-play proposition; i.e. provide an RJ-45 jack > with same pinout as Kenwood mic jack to provide power for > the GPS? An internal GPS was on the list of considered options. In the long run I determined it was not worth it: 1. This tied up the serial lines and would have to have some kind of isolation circuit for when you wanted to load firmware, access other options through the port, ect. 2. An internal GPS is only good for GPS datum, that's it. What if I wanted to connect up a nice, new Garmin Colorado (with the serial port option) with a color screen for displaying waypoints? It would would become a pain to either disable the GPS through firmware or hardware. 3. The cost of adding the internal GPS, antenna and pre-amp really blew the price point up on the whole unit. Right now, at $195 the Yag is priced at just under half of a RC-D710 head. Grant it, the price margin slips when the RC-D710 goes on sale. I think most people already have a GPS they would be fine with using and just raising the cost to include a limited one doesn't make much sense to me. I learned that with the RTrak. Just because the GPS is built in, doesn't mean people want it more. That would probaly explain why Byonics sells 10+ MicroTraks to my every 1 RTrak. It's a matter of dollars and sense. So getting back to the subject of Green Light Labs, no I have not considered a proprietary connection to suit a single type of GPS. The serial interface already available is as universal as it gets. Just about any serial GPS with NMEA output will do. Along with the radio/GPS interface, we included two switchable voltage outputs. +5VDC and source switched DC. The +5VDC links back to the days of the HamHUD II allowing you to power a +5VDC GPS off of the port. Most people are also familiar with this same function on every OpenTracker and TinyTrak out there. They all have this function. Makes for a very nice, clean and seamless interface to the GPS. Of course, if you GPS can handle more voltage, like my Garmin GPS III+, I can use the switch source voltage pin to power it. The advantage to this is when you turn on the Yag, the voltage is turned on to the GPS and you have full power control of both units. Take it one step further. With the new breakout board we'll have available, there will be an on-board 5VDC relay good for up to 10A of current. This relay will be controlled by the switch +5VDC output and can be used to power up the APRS radio connected, remotely. With the single flick of the YagTracker's power switch, you can power up the radio and GPS all at the same time. Just hide everything under the seat, armrest, truck, wherever and no need to get to it every time you go anywhere! Jason Rausch > You mention the following bullet-list features: > > - Map plot screen plots all in station list > - Map plot has "show callsign" feature to see who is who > - Map plot can be oriented "North Up" or auto-rotate in > direction of travel > > > Does this mean the device has some sort of internal mapping > capability, or does this mean when used with an external > display GPS with GPWPL capability? Yes and no. Go back and think of the old Garmin days before they had mapping, but plotted waypoints on a blank screen! This is exactly what we are doing with the map plot screen on the Yag. You are always centered on the map and the stations around you are plotted on the map. You can instantly see what traffic you have around you. The rotary encoder allows you to zoom in and out quickly to change the range of view. Enabling the view callsign feature in the pop-up menu will now show you the callsign of each station, one at a time and also shows you their current distance from you. When in the callsign view, it starts with the station closest to you and as you turn the encoder clockwise, it moves out to the next farthest and so on. Hope that answers your questions! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com From ldeffenb at homeside.to Wed Aug 17 15:57:09 2011 From: ldeffenb at homeside.to (Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 15:57:09 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <20110817151748.13341wlhs8rhoct8@rlburns.net> References: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4E4C04A2.7080906@aol.com> <20110817151748.13341wlhs8rhoct8@rlburns.net> Message-ID: <4E4C1D15.50109@homeside.to> On 8/17/2011 3:17 PM, Bob Burns W9RXR wrote: > ...hot-glued it to the inside of a Pelican case. Works fine. I learned the hard way that hot-glue inside boxes that sit on the dash of my car in Florida is not a good idea. The glue ends up in a puddle on the bottom (or outside) of the box and whatever it was supposed to be holding on the inside falls down. In my case, it shorted a + to - lead on the 12v supply, melted the wires, and left a nice little smoke stain on the windshield before the fuse blew thankfully preventing further damage (like the car bursting into flames). Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ From rlove31 at gmail.com Wed Aug 17 17:43:12 2011 From: rlove31 at gmail.com (Randy Love) Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2011 17:43:12 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] New APRS Device, The YagTracker! In-Reply-To: <4E4C1D15.50109@homeside.to> References: <1313538180.7373.YahooMailClassic@web1108.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> <4E4C04A2.7080906@aol.com> <20110817151748.13341wlhs8rhoct8@rlburns.net> <4E4C1D15.50109@homeside.to> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 17, 2011 at 3:57 PM, Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr) < ldeffenb at homeside.to> wrote: > On 8/17/2011 3:17 PM, Bob Burns W9RXR wrote: > >> ...hot-glued it to the inside of a Pelican case. Works fine. >> > > ... and left a nice little smoke stain on the windshield before the fuse > blew thankfully preventing further damage (like the car bursting into > flames). > > Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ > > > whole new meaning to 'burning down the highway' :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ve7gdh at rac.ca Thu Aug 18 11:54:01 2011 From: ve7gdh at rac.ca (Keith VE7GDH) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 08:54:01 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] iGate on an IRLP node? Message-ID: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> Does anyone have a suggestion for some iGate software that will run on an IRLP node? By their very nature, IRLP nodes always have an Internet connection. The iGate must of course run on Linux and be a very light weight application. It should gate what it hears, send messages to local stations, and not write any received data to a hard drive as the intended destination is an embedded node without such an animal. It has a flash drive, but I wouldn't it constantly writing to that. There is a serial port available for a TNC. I did ask on the IRLP support list, but I thought that I would try here. Dave VE7LTD was working on a "receive only iGate with linux soundmodem on a USB dongle, combined with aprx." Perhaps aprx is what I should be looking at? I just had a look at http://wiki.ham.fi/Aprx.en and at a glance, it sounds like what I'm looking for. Any comments? 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH -- "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!" From wa7nwp at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 12:19:43 2011 From: wa7nwp at gmail.com (Bill Vodall) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 09:19:43 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] iGate on an IRLP node? In-Reply-To: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> References: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 18, 2011 at 8:54 AM, Keith VE7GDH wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion for some iGate software that will > run on an IRLP node? By their very nature, IRLP nodes always have > an Internet connection. The iGate must of course run on Linux and be > a very light weight application. It should ?gate what it hears, send > messages to local stations, and not write any received data to a hard > drive as the intended destination is an embedded node Good old APRSD is another option. The wetnet folks can probably hook you up with a version compiled for your platform. I believe it can have the logging disabled. If not, that's a simple tweak to the source. 73 Bill - WA7NWP From fred at moses.bz Thu Aug 18 12:21:07 2011 From: fred at moses.bz (Fredric Moses) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 12:21:07 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] iGate on an IRLP node? In-Reply-To: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> References: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> Message-ID: I run APRX on my IRLP nodes... heck i have it on all sorts of devices... linksys wrt54g's... Asus routers with open wrt. mini-itx systems in tool boxes.. I wish it had some features. like web page status and things. but it simple.. works and runs well in a production environment. Have 14 different digi/igates on the air with it.. -- Fredric Moses - W8FSM fred at moses.bz On Aug 18, 2011, at 11:54 AM, Keith VE7GDH wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion for some iGate software that will > run on an IRLP node? By their very nature, IRLP nodes always have > an Internet connection. The iGate must of course run on Linux and be > a very light weight application. It should gate what it hears, send > messages to local stations, and not write any received data to a hard > drive as the intended destination is an embedded node without such > an animal. It has a flash drive, but I wouldn't it constantly writing > to that. There is a serial port available for a TNC. I did ask on the > IRLP support list, but I thought that I would try here. Dave VE7LTD > was working on a "receive only iGate with linux soundmodem on > a USB dongle, combined with aprx." Perhaps aprx is what I > should be looking at? I just had a look at http://wiki.ham.fi/Aprx.en > and at a glance, it sounds like what I'm looking for. Any comments? > 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH > -- > "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!" > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From jgorkos at gmail.com Thu Aug 18 15:45:09 2011 From: jgorkos at gmail.com (John Gorkos) Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2011 15:45:09 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] iGate on an IRLP node? In-Reply-To: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> References: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> Message-ID: <1313696709.4626.85.camel@bugsy> I'll second the APRX nomination. The addition of a web-status page would be great, but I have installed it in multiple places on embedded, flash-memory-based systems in non-climate-controlled environments with no problem. On Thu, 2011-08-18 at 08:54 -0700, Keith VE7GDH wrote: > Does anyone have a suggestion for some iGate software that will > run on an IRLP node? By their very nature, IRLP nodes always have > an Internet connection. The iGate must of course run on Linux and be > a very light weight application. It should gate what it hears, send > messages to local stations, and not write any received data to a hard > drive as the intended destination is an embedded node without such > an animal. It has a flash drive, but I wouldn't it constantly writing > to that. There is a serial port available for a TNC. I did ask on the > IRLP support list, but I thought that I would try here. Dave VE7LTD > was working on a "receive only iGate with linux soundmodem on > a USB dongle, combined with aprx." Perhaps aprx is what I > should be looking at? I just had a look at http://wiki.ham.fi/Aprx.en > and at a glance, it sounds like what I'm looking for. Any comments? > > 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH > -- > "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!" > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From hessu at hes.iki.fi Thu Aug 18 23:25:39 2011 From: hessu at hes.iki.fi (Heikki Hannikainen) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 06:25:39 +0300 (EEST) Subject: [aprssig] iGate on an IRLP node? In-Reply-To: <1313696709.4626.85.camel@bugsy> References: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> <1313696709.4626.85.camel@bugsy> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Aug 2011, John Gorkos wrote: > I'll second the APRX nomination. The addition of a web-status page > would be great, but I have installed it in multiple places on embedded, > flash-memory-based systems in non-climate-controlled environments with > no problem. I have to say that the lack of the web server is part of aprx's and aprsg's beauty. Too many programs try to become web servers although they don't really need to, leading to unnecessary security holes and extra maintenance for everyone involved. Personally, I'd much rather run a separate web server which would then run a script to generate a status page. - Hessu From la3qma at aprs.la Fri Aug 19 03:20:44 2011 From: la3qma at aprs.la (la3qma at aprs.la) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 09:20:44 +0200 Subject: [aprssig] iGate on an IRLP node? In-Reply-To: References: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> <1313696709.4626.85.camel@bugsy> Message-ID: <20110819092044.34885l3sixp7vsw0@83.143.81.62> Siterer "Heikki Hannikainen" : > I have to say that the lack of the web server is part of aprx's and > aprsg's beauty. Too many programs try to become web servers although > they don't really need to, leading to unnecessary security holes and > extra maintenance for everyone involved. > > Personally, I'd much rather run a separate web server which would then > run a script to generate a status page. > > - Hessu > I second that... The simple but still advanced aprx software is the advantage of this package. I would also prefer that aprx still being developed so that it is an IGATE and digipeater. Other "non igate/digi" features should/could then be accessible by scripting. Making more advanced IGATE/digi functions and keep the software small so that it fits in i.e Linksys routers etc. You can always parse the log files from aprx to get information to a webserver. Kai Gunter LA3QMA From oh2mqk at sral.fi Fri Aug 19 05:29:31 2011 From: oh2mqk at sral.fi (Matti Aarnio) Date: Fri, 19 Aug 2011 12:29:31 +0300 Subject: [aprssig] iGate on an IRLP node? In-Reply-To: <20110819092044.34885l3sixp7vsw0@83.143.81.62> References: <28B3D617FD2C4D5D88D70D688FF3624D@d2> <1313696709.4626.85.camel@bugsy> <20110819092044.34885l3sixp7vsw0@83.143.81.62> Message-ID: <20110819092931.GJ27753@mea-ext.zmailer.org> On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 09:20:44AM +0200, la3qma at aprs.la wrote: > Quoting "Heikki Hannikainen" : > > >I have to say that the lack of the web server is part of aprx's and > >aprsg's beauty. Too many programs try to become web servers although > >they don't really need to, leading to unnecessary security holes and > >extra maintenance for everyone involved. > > > >Personally, I'd much rather run a separate web server which would then > >run a script to generate a status page. > > > > - Hessu > > > > I second that... > > The simple but still advanced aprx software is the advantage of this > package. I would also prefer that aprx still being developed so that > it is an IGATE and digipeater. The lattest package ("2.02test") is already that. Since then I have done a few small feature and bug-fixes: * Filtering of MICe position data fails. F4FXL found the bug on MICe parser, and provided initial patch. * Telemetry & beacons only on radio ports, never on pseudo-ports like APRSIS. * Beacon transmit only if address information is AX.25 conformant. * Some editing on the aprx-manual.odt/.pdf Then my summer vacation came to ab end, and hobby projects are again on wait status... To present Aprx feature requests, please send them to email list: aprx-software at googlegroups.com There is a filter that non-subscribers messages go to moderation hold, so becoming a subscriber at first is advisable. > Other "non igate/digi" features > should/could then be accessible by scripting. Making more advanced > IGATE/digi functions and keep the software small so that it fits in > i.e Linksys routers etc. > > You can always parse the log files from aprx to get information to a > webserver. > > Kai Gunter > LA3QMA 73 de Matti, OH2MQK (and back to official work...) From bruninga at usna.edu Sat Aug 20 21:09:54 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga ) Date: Sat, 20 Aug 2011 21:09:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] APRS Day Out! In-Reply-To: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> References: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> Message-ID: <201108210109.020876@mp6.usna.edu> APRS Day Out! This idea of an "APRS Day Out" on 10 September is evolving and so has the name. This separates us from the goals and objectives of the rules-driven ARRL QSO party overlaping the same timeframe, to an activity not quite so restrictive. Also, a full 24 hour cycle for APRS seemed overkill and beyond the length of my usual kitchen pass (and attention span). So, to help focus the event I'm suggesting the "APRS Day Out" begins at 2PM local time and concludes at 11PM local time on 147.525 MHz, the HamIM frequency. THis is an AD-HOC APRS event using the temporary path of TEMPn-N. And EVERYONE can participate, (no unattended stations please) even if you do not leave your shack. Those guys that do go to the mountain tops are going to need to have someone to talk to, so all those shack potatoes will be great additions to the event. Shucks! Lets make it a contest! Every Station captured (that has a GRID in his beacon) counts as 1 point. Every MESSAGE (BLN) captured from another station counts 2 points. Every "exchange" coutns 3 points. Notice that since APRS recognizes the EFFICIENCY of bulletins and the BURDEN of Messages-with-acks, then that callsign-to callsign messaegs are STRONGLY DISCOURAGED. These heavily burden the ad-hoc network. So, what does an "exchange mean"? It means that someone elses outgoing BLN# lists YOUR callsign in it. PLEASE do not send a BLN# until you have collected 8 callsigns. Then send a BLN# that says, QSL XYZ,ABC,FGH,DEF, etc. This is a far, far more efficient way to QSL an exchange of 8 stations among those 8 stations than it does to send 64 individual messages and 64 acks. Which could add up to over 300 message retries and 300 acks, compared to just one BLN each from the 8 stations acknowledging the other 8 all in one packet. I will add these techniques to my APRS Day Out web page when I get back to my PC on monday. http://aprs.org/rovers.html Bob, wb4apr .> >For this coming Sept VHF QSO party(10-11 Sept), > a cadre of APRS mobiles and portables is going > to man 15 mountain tops along the Appalachians > from Maine to Georgia (and anywhere else in the > country where contesting is popular). > > Their APRS radio will be on the HamIM frequency > of 147.585 and will be enabled for APRS digipeating. > Not only will they be able to see all the contest > rovers out there, but they will also digipeat any > such beacons to others so that everyone can see where > everyone is. These packets have nothing to do with > the contest or scoring, but they just support the > mobile rovers and portable operators in seeing where > everyone is located. > > This kind of ad-hoc system works if all mobiles > and portable stations use the same settings in > their APRS radios and TNC's as follows: > > FREQUENCY: 147.585 (the HamIM frequency) > PATH: TEMP7-7 (reduce to TEMP3-3 if load too high) > SYMBOL: Rover or Portable (tent) > RATE: Every 5 minutes > > Now then, to make the ad-hoc network self- > supporting, every well situated station (mountaintop > or mobile and ROVERS) with a D700 or KPC-3 should > also enable their own station for digipeating. > To enable your station as a TEMPn-N digipeater > also, use these settings: > > UITRACE TEMP > DIGI ON > > These need to be permanently set in the Radio TNC > via the serial port prior to the event. In fact, > these settings are now factory defaults in all > D710's and subsequent radios so that any radio, > any time, can serve as an ad-hoc digi for others > on demand, by simply using the TEMPn-N path. > > For details and background please see: > http://aprs.org/rovers.html > > Make sure you test your station before the event! > > Good luck in the Contest! > > Bob, WB4APR From jason at ke4nyv.com Mon Aug 22 09:28:05 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 06:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Now Taking Orders for YagTracker Units! Message-ID: <1314019685.2083.YahooMailClassic@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> We have decided to open up pre-ordering this morning for the new YagTracker APRS Device. At this point almost all parts are in and we'll be shipping them to the contract builder shortly. If everything fall together as planned, we should start shipping units by the 15th of September. Here is the main webpage listing features, pictures and a short video. There is also an active Add to Cart button as well: http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php We will be posting more pictures and videos this week. There has been some significant firmware upgrades done and we will be showcasing these features. Thanks! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com From rudy at ve3bdr.com Mon Aug 22 09:34:11 2011 From: rudy at ve3bdr.com (Rudy Benner) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:34:11 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Now Taking Orders for YagTracker Units! In-Reply-To: <1314019685.2083.YahooMailClassic@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <1314019685.2083.YahooMailClassic@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Still no documentation? ve3bdr -----Original Message----- From: Jason Rausch Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:28 AM To: aprssig at tapr.org Subject: [aprssig] Now Taking Orders for YagTracker Units! We have decided to open up pre-ordering this morning for the new YagTracker APRS Device. At this point almost all parts are in and we'll be shipping them to the contract builder shortly. If everything fall together as planned, we should start shipping units by the 15th of September. Here is the main webpage listing features, pictures and a short video. There is also an active Add to Cart button as well: http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php We will be posting more pictures and videos this week. There has been some significant firmware upgrades done and we will be showcasing these features. Thanks! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From kandelj at bellsouth.net Mon Aug 22 09:55:18 2011 From: kandelj at bellsouth.net (Joel I. Kandel) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 09:55:18 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Now Taking Orders for YagTracker Units! In-Reply-To: <1314019685.2083.YahooMailClassic@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> References: <1314019685.2083.YahooMailClassic@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Jason, Couple of questions...How is it powered, and can it show altitude as in tracking a balloon with APRS on board? Thanks, Joel Kandel, KI4T -----Original Message----- From: Jason Rausch Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:28 AM To: aprssig at tapr.org Subject: [aprssig] Now Taking Orders for YagTracker Units! We have decided to open up pre-ordering this morning for the new YagTracker APRS Device. At this point almost all parts are in and we'll be shipping them to the contract builder shortly. If everything fall together as planned, we should start shipping units by the 15th of September. Here is the main webpage listing features, pictures and a short video. There is also an active Add to Cart button as well: http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php We will be posting more pictures and videos this week. There has been some significant firmware upgrades done and we will be showcasing these features. Thanks! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From jason at ke4nyv.com Mon Aug 22 10:16:11 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 07:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Now Taking Orders for YagTracker Units! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314022571.24553.YahooMailClassic@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Joel, I have a feature request on the list to have a balloon "tracking" screen that will show things like altitude. I would also like it to display AGC levels from payloads that support that kind of telemetry, such as our RTrak-HAB. Thanks! Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com --- On Mon, 8/22/11, Joel I. Kandel wrote: > From: Joel I. Kandel > Subject: Re: [aprssig] Now Taking Orders for YagTracker Units! > To: jason at ke4nyv.com, "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > Date: Monday, August 22, 2011, 9:55 AM > Jason, > Couple of questions...How is it powered, and can it show > altitude as in tracking a balloon with APRS on board? > Thanks, > Joel Kandel, KI4T > > > > -----Original Message----- From: Jason Rausch > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2011 9:28 AM > To: aprssig at tapr.org > Subject: [aprssig] Now Taking Orders for YagTracker Units! > > We have decided to open up pre-ordering this morning for > the new YagTracker APRS Device.? At this point almost > all parts are in and we'll be shipping them to the contract > builder shortly.? If everything fall together as > planned, we should start shipping units by the 15th of > September. > > Here is the main webpage listing features, pictures and a > short video. There is also an active Add to Cart button as > well: > > http://www.rpc-electronics.com/yagtracker.php > > > We will be posting more pictures and videos this > week.? There has been some significant firmware > upgrades done and we will be showcasing these features. > > Thanks! > Jason Rausch - KE4NYV > RPC Electronics, LLC > www.rpc-electronics.com > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > From bruninga at usna.edu Mon Aug 22 13:39:20 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2011 13:39:20 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS Day Out! (rev a) In-Reply-To: <201108210109.020876@mp6.usna.edu> References: <007001cc5835$c4555760$4d000620$@edu> <201108210109.020876@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: <049201cc60f2$6c4e88a0$44eb99e0$@edu> Here is the new concept for the 10 September 2011 National APRS DAY OUT. Please see: http://aprs.org/APRS-day-out.html The event and Rules are evolving so that everyone can play, not just the Mountaintoppers. Here is the latest... NO MESSSAGES will be used (too much overhead). You make your report in the status Comment field of your Position Packet, using a once every 5 minute rate. The information exchange is the total number of stations heard by their number of hops, and the number of packets per minute at your location. This can all be summarized into about 10 bytes and will be very useful such as: 76543210,p:QSL ABC,DEF,XYZ,HIJ... Where 7 is the # of stations taking 7 hops, 6 is the # of stations taking 6 hops, etc. Then P is the subjective number of packets per minute, and the QSL info is a list of 8 callsign suffixes you have heard (or 5 full calls). If your APRS radio does not display incoming paths, then just insert your radio type instead: D700,p:QSL ABC, ... IN addition to keep from overloading the network, stations choose their outgoing TEMPn-N number of hops based on the load on the network. For example, if they are hearing more than 16 packets per minute, then they need to cut down to only the TEMP2-2 path. If they are hearing less than one packet per minute, then they can use TEMP7-7. This can be a great Test of the ability of Hams to set up and use APRS on an ad-hoc basis. Bob, WB4APR -----Original Message----- From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of Bob Bruninga Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 9:10 PM To: APRS at yahoogroups.com; 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' Subject: [aprssig] APRS Day Out! APRS Day Out! This idea of an "APRS Day Out" on 10 September is evolving and so has the name. This separates us from the goals and objectives of the rules-driven ARRL QSO party overlaping the same timeframe, to an activity not quite so restrictive. Also, a full 24 hour cycle for APRS seemed overkill and beyond the length of my usual kitchen pass (and attention span). So, to help focus the event I'm suggesting the "APRS Day Out" begins at 2PM local time and concludes at 11PM local time on 147.525 MHz, the HamIM frequency. THis is an AD-HOC APRS event using the temporary path of TEMPn-N. And EVERYONE can participate, (no unattended stations please) even if you do not leave your shack. Those guys that do go to the mountain tops are going to need to have someone to talk to, so all those shack potatoes will be great additions to the event. Shucks! Lets make it a contest! Every Station captured (that has a GRID in his beacon) counts as 1 point. Every MESSAGE (BLN) captured from another station counts 2 points. Every "exchange" coutns 3 points. Notice that since APRS recognizes the EFFICIENCY of bulletins and the BURDEN of Messages-with-acks, then that callsign-to callsign messaegs are STRONGLY DISCOURAGED. These heavily burden the ad-hoc network. So, what does an "exchange mean"? It means that someone elses outgoing BLN# lists YOUR callsign in it. PLEASE do not send a BLN# until you have collected 8 callsigns. Then send a BLN# that says, QSL XYZ,ABC,FGH,DEF, etc. This is a far, far more efficient way to QSL an exchange of 8 stations among those 8 stations than it does to send 64 individual messages and 64 acks. Which could add up to over 300 message retries and 300 acks, compared to just one BLN each from the 8 stations acknowledging the other 8 all in one packet. I will add these techniques to my APRS Day Out web page when I get back to my PC on monday. http://aprs.org/rovers.html Bob, wb4apr .> >For this coming Sept VHF QSO party(10-11 Sept), > a cadre of APRS mobiles and portables is going > to man 15 mountain tops along the Appalachians > from Maine to Georgia (and anywhere else in the > country where contesting is popular). > > Their APRS radio will be on the HamIM frequency > of 147.585 and will be enabled for APRS digipeating. > Not only will they be able to see all the contest > rovers out there, but they will also digipeat any > such beacons to others so that everyone can see where > everyone is. These packets have nothing to do with > the contest or scoring, but they just support the > mobile rovers and portable operators in seeing where > everyone is located. > > This kind of ad-hoc system works if all mobiles > and portable stations use the same settings in > their APRS radios and TNC's as follows: > > FREQUENCY: 147.585 (the HamIM frequency) > PATH: TEMP7-7 (reduce to TEMP3-3 if load too high) > SYMBOL: Rover or Portable (tent) > RATE: Every 5 minutes > > Now then, to make the ad-hoc network self- > supporting, every well situated station (mountaintop > or mobile and ROVERS) with a D700 or KPC-3 should > also enable their own station for digipeating. > To enable your station as a TEMPn-N digipeater > also, use these settings: > > UITRACE TEMP > DIGI ON > > These need to be permanently set in the Radio TNC > via the serial port prior to the event. In fact, > these settings are now factory defaults in all > D710's and subsequent radios so that any radio, > any time, can serve as an ad-hoc digi for others > on demand, by simply using the TEMPn-N path. > > For details and background please see: > http://aprs.org/rovers.html > > Make sure you test your station before the event! > > Good luck in the Contest! > > Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From kshrwood at hotmail.com Tue Aug 23 12:06:57 2011 From: kshrwood at hotmail.com (Kevin Sherwood) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:06:57 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Has anyone considered anything like this for portable APRS:http://www.tradestead.com/wholesale-android-2-2-7-inch-touch-screen-tablet-pc-pda-mid-wide-camera_p12982.html7" screen, 800 mhz processor, 256 mb ram, wifi, limited camera. Actually maybe not that one, I don't see a microphone jack, but there are other cheap ones out there.Imagine the possibilities though - add a bluetooth serial interface to your APRS-ready rig, or use the audio jacks and a sound modem. Mapping, messaging, on screen keyboard or Bluetooth keyboard. Heck the camera's low res is optimized for the small size picutre messages that were discussed recently. KevinKB3PLX -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ldeffenb at homeside.to Tue Aug 23 12:51:29 2011 From: ldeffenb at homeside.to (Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:51:29 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E53DA91.5040903@homeside.to> Actually, if you search for a WebDT 366 running Windows CE 5.0, I'm working to make APRSISCE/32 compatible with it. They go for around $100 on e-Bay and include both WiFi and Bluetooth typically. The one you list doesn't say anything about bluetooth, so adding a bluetooth to serial interface to your rig won't help you. As with Windows CE vs Windows Mobile, just because it says "Android" doesn't mean it has the same features available as other things that say "Android". Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Author of APRSISCE for Windows Mobile and Win32 On 8/23/2011 12:06 PM, Kevin Sherwood wrote: > Has anyone considered anything like this for portable APRS: > http://www.tradestead.com/wholesale-android-2-2-7-inch-touch-screen-tablet-pc-pda-mid-wide-camera_p12982.html > 7" screen, 800 mhz processor, 256 mb ram, wifi, limited camera. > Actually maybe not that one, I don't see a microphone jack, but there are other cheap ones out there. > Imagine the possibilities though - add a bluetooth serial interface to your APRS-ready rig, or use the audio jacks and a sound modem. Mapping, messaging, on screen keyboard or Bluetooth keyboard. Heck the camera's low res is optimized for the small size picutre messages that were discussed recently. > Kevin > KB3PLX > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jason at ke4nyv.com Tue Aug 23 13:12:36 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 10:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314119556.17714.YahooMailClassic@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Kevin, I have a Huawei S7 Android tablet.? I rooted it and loaded a 2.2 ROM, so I have some more Bluetooth function.? Just last night I discovered that APRSDroid had a new version that included Bluetooth TNC serial link capability and tried it out.? I have a Roving networks BT serial adapter plugged onto the back of a spare TNC-X.? Worked great on my HTC Incredible phone, but had a serious crash everytime I tried to stop tracking and get out of the app.? I actually had to pull my battery to get it going again.? Happened over and over. Tonight I want to try the tablet.? I forgot it at work or else I would have loaded it up last night.? Hoping that the crash is centralized to my phone and not the tablet as well. Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com --- On Tue, 8/23/11, Kevin Sherwood wrote: From: Kevin Sherwood Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets To: aprssig at tapr.org Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 12:06 PM Has anyone considered anything like this for portable APRS:http://www.tradestead.com/wholesale-android-2-2-7-inch-touch-screen-tablet-pc-pda-mid-wide-camera_p12982.html7" screen, 800 mhz processor, 256 mb ram, wifi, limited camera. Actually maybe not that one, I don't see a microphone jack, but there are other cheap ones out there.Imagine the possibilities though - add a bluetooth serial interface to your APRS-ready rig, or use the audio jacks and a sound modem. Mapping, messaging, on screen keyboard or Bluetooth keyboard. Heck the camera's low res is optimized for the small size picutre messages that were discussed recently. KevinKB3PLX -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gregg at wonderly.org Tue Aug 23 13:56:13 2011 From: gregg at wonderly.org (Gregg Wonderly) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:56:13 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E53E9BD.1060407@wonderly.org> On 8/23/2011 11:06 AM, Kevin Sherwood wrote: > Has anyone considered anything like this for portable APRS: > > http://www.tradestead.com/wholesale-android-2-2-7-inch-touch-screen-tablet-pc-pda-mid-wide-camera_p12982.html > > 7" screen, 800 mhz processor, 256 mb ram, wifi, limited camera. > > Actually maybe not that one, I don't see a microphone jack, but there are other cheap ones out there. > > Imagine the possibilities though - add a bluetooth serial interface to your APRS-ready rig, or > use the audio jacks and a sound modem. Mapping, messaging, on screen keyboard or Bluetooth keyboard. > Heck the camera's low res is optimized for the small size picutre messages that were discussed recently. I really think that "bluetooth" serial or "direct audio connections" create a lot of limitations on what is achievable. Look at the WiSnap or other "WiFi" interfaced serial port devices. If you focus on that style interface, then interacting with that device vs an i-Gate is nearly zero. This means that you can decide when you are "on the air". If you carry around a small access point for use in your vehicle, you can even take you APRS device out of your vehicle and use it remotely. This is the model of design that I've used on my APRSNow application for the iPad. I still don't have a WiSnap connected to mine, but as soon as my current financial situation improves, I will probably put a MacMini in the car and use it's WiFi to connect through to a USB-Serial dongle served by a JavAPRSsrv instance which will also have my Verizon USB Cellular modem attached when I need a full internet connection. That will let me park near a support event, get out with my iPad, and do APRS and access the internet both. Gregg Wonderly W5GGW From lloyd at mitchell-web.net Tue Aug 23 14:55:37 2011 From: lloyd at mitchell-web.net (Lloyd Mitchell) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 11:55:37 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets Message-ID: <20110823115537.4a96712b3f5427367b2f7363417beae8.402891ac91.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> Does anyone on the listserv' have one of these? Wow Lloyd KO4L Gye Nyame Notice: This electronic communication may contain information of a confidential or privileged nature and is intended to be viewed only by the intended recipient. If you receive this email in error, please delete it and notify my office by email. Warning: Any unauthorized interception of this electronic communication is a violation of 18 USC 2510, et seq., The Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which carries penalties of up to 5 years imprisonment, criminal fines, and possible civil liability. -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [aprssig] Android Tablets From: Gregg Wonderly Date: Tue, August 23, 2011 1:56 pm To: TAPR APRS Mailing List Cc: Kevin Sherwood On 8/23/2011 11:06 AM, Kevin Sherwood wrote: > Has anyone considered anything like this for portable APRS: > > http://www.tradestead.com/wholesale-android-2-2-7-inch-touch-screen-tablet-pc-pda-mid-wide-camera_p12982.html > > 7" screen, 800 mhz processor, 256 mb ram, wifi, limited camera. > > Actually maybe not that one, I don't see a microphone jack, but there are other cheap ones out there. > > Imagine the possibilities though - add a bluetooth serial interface to your APRS-ready rig, or > use the audio jacks and a sound modem. Mapping, messaging, on screen keyboard or Bluetooth keyboard. > Heck the camera's low res is optimized for the small size picutre messages that were discussed recently. I really think that "bluetooth" serial or "direct audio connections" create a lot of limitations on what is achievable. Look at the WiSnap or other "WiFi" interfaced serial port devices. If you focus on that style interface, then interacting with that device vs an i-Gate is nearly zero. This means that you can decide when you are "on the air". If you carry around a small access point for use in your vehicle, you can even take you APRS device out of your vehicle and use it remotely. This is the model of design that I've used on my APRSNow application for the iPad. I still don't have a WiSnap connected to mine, but as soon as my current financial situation improves, I will probably put a MacMini in the car and use it's WiFi to connect through to a USB-Serial dongle served by a JavAPRSsrv instance which will also have my Verizon USB Cellular modem attached when I need a full internet connection. That will let me park near a support event, get out with my iPad, and do APRS and access the internet both. Gregg Wonderly W5GGW _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From kc9gqr at gmail.com Tue Aug 23 15:04:59 2011 From: kc9gqr at gmail.com (Bradley Haney) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 14:04:59 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets In-Reply-To: <20110823115537.4a96712b3f5427367b2f7363417beae8.402891ac91.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> References: <20110823115537.4a96712b3f5427367b2f7363417beae8.402891ac91.wbe@email01.secureserver.net> Message-ID: To bad some one doesn't come up with a WINLINK APP that you can interface with your TNC via bluetooth.. On Tue, Aug 23, 2011 at 1:55 PM, Lloyd Mitchell wrote: > Does anyone on the listserv' have one of these? > Wow > > Lloyd KO4L > > Gye Nyame > > > Notice: This electronic communication may contain information of a > confidential or privileged nature and is intended to be viewed only by > the intended recipient. If you receive this email in error, please > delete it and notify my office by email. Warning: Any unauthorized > interception of this electronic communication is a violation of 18 USC > 2510, et seq., > The Electronic Communications Privacy Act, which carries penalties of up > to 5 years imprisonment, criminal fines, and possible civil liability. > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [aprssig] Android Tablets > From: Gregg Wonderly > Date: Tue, August 23, 2011 1:56 pm > To: TAPR APRS Mailing List > Cc: Kevin Sherwood > > On 8/23/2011 11:06 AM, Kevin Sherwood wrote: > > Has anyone considered anything like this for portable APRS: > > > > > http://www.tradestead.com/wholesale-android-2-2-7-inch-touch-screen-tablet-pc-pda-mid-wide-camera_p12982.html > > > > 7" screen, 800 mhz processor, 256 mb ram, wifi, limited camera. > > > > Actually maybe not that one, I don't see a microphone jack, but there are > other cheap ones out there. > > > > Imagine the possibilities though - add a bluetooth serial interface to > your APRS-ready rig, or > > use the audio jacks and a sound modem. Mapping, messaging, on screen > keyboard or Bluetooth keyboard. > > Heck the camera's low res is optimized for the small size picutre > messages > that were discussed recently. > > I really think that "bluetooth" serial or "direct audio connections" > create a > lot of limitations on what is achievable. Look at the WiSnap or other > "WiFi" > interfaced serial port devices. If you focus on that style interface, > then > interacting with that device vs an i-Gate is nearly zero. This means > that you > can decide when you are "on the air". If you carry around a small access > point > for use in your vehicle, you can even take you APRS device out of your > vehicle > and use it remotely. > > This is the model of design that I've used on my APRSNow application for > the > iPad. I still don't have a WiSnap connected to mine, but as soon as my > current > financial situation improves, I will probably put a MacMini in the car > and use > it's WiFi to connect through to a USB-Serial dongle served by a > JavAPRSsrv > instance which will also have my Verizon USB Cellular modem attached > when I need > a full internet connection. That will let me park near a support event, > get out > with my iPad, and do APRS and access the internet both. > > Gregg Wonderly > W5GGW > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From georg at op-co.de Tue Aug 23 15:43:30 2011 From: georg at op-co.de (Georg Lukas) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 21:43:30 +0200 Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets In-Reply-To: <1314119556.17714.YahooMailClassic@web1110.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110823194300.GA6478@ovgu.de> Hello Jason, list, * Jason Rausch [2011-08-23 19:14]: > I have a Roving networks BT serial adapter plugged onto the back of a > spare TNC-X.? Worked great on my HTC Incredible phone, but had a > serious crash everytime I tried to stop tracking and get out of the > app. Its great to know that APRSdroid Bluetooth code actually works. Regarding the crash, can you send me a logcat from the device off-list? (https://github.com/ge0rg/aprsdroid/wiki/Reporting-Bugs) If the device crashes, it is typically a bug in the firmware, however I'm very interested in finding a viable workaround. There are still some minor issues which prevent me from releasing 1.1 to the Market, but I hope to have the version ready in the next weeks. I'm glad about any feedback regarding the messaging and the bluetooth TNC code, as both is currently experimental. If other list participants want to test it, the beta version can be downloaded from http://aprsdroid.org/b1 73 from Germany, Georg DO1GL -- APRSdroid - Open Source APRS Position reporting and Mapping on Android http://aprsdroid.org/m ++ https://market.android.com/details?id=org.aprsdroid.app -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 190 bytes Desc: Digital signature URL: From jason at ke4nyv.com Tue Aug 23 15:48:49 2011 From: jason at ke4nyv.com (Jason Rausch) Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2011 12:48:49 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Android Tablets In-Reply-To: <20110823194300.GA6478@ovgu.de> Message-ID: <1314128929.9188.YahooMailClassic@web1109.biz.mail.sk1.yahoo.com> Georg, Guten tag! I'll see about capturing a log for you tonight and send you an email. Jason Rausch - KE4NYV RPC Electronics, LLC www.rpc-electronics.com --- On Tue, 8/23/11, Georg Lukas wrote: > From: Georg Lukas > Subject: Re: [aprssig] Android Tablets > To: aprssig at tapr.org > Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2011, 3:43 PM > Hello Jason, list, > > * Jason Rausch > [2011-08-23 19:14]: > > I have a Roving networks BT serial adapter plugged > onto the back of a > > spare TNC-X.? Worked great on my HTC Incredible > phone, but had a > > serious crash everytime I tried to stop tracking and > get out of the > > app. > > Its great to know that APRSdroid Bluetooth code actually > works. > Regarding the crash, can you send me a logcat from the > device off-list? > (https://github.com/ge0rg/aprsdroid/wiki/Reporting-Bugs) > If the device crashes, it is typically a bug in the > firmware, however > I'm very interested in finding a viable workaround. > > There are still some minor issues which prevent me from > releasing 1.1 to > the Market, but I hope to have the version ready in the > next weeks. > > I'm glad about any feedback regarding the messaging and the > bluetooth > TNC code, as both is currently experimental.? If other > list participants > want to test it, the beta version can be downloaded from > http://aprsdroid.org/b1 > > > 73 from Germany, > > Georg DO1GL > -- > APRSdroid - Open Source APRS Position reporting and Mapping > on Android > http://aprsdroid.org/m ++ https://market.android.com/details?id=org.aprsdroid.app > > -----Inline Attachment Follows----- > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > From earl.kd5xb at gmail.com Wed Aug 24 10:17:23 2011 From: earl.kd5xb at gmail.com (Earl Needham) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:17:23 +0000 Subject: [aprssig] That delayed packet problem Message-ID: <1422546107-1314195443-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2102610785-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> If anyone is actively trying to solve the delayed-packet problem, this might help. My tracker hasn't sent anything in close to two weeks, but Findu says it's near Bryan, Texas as of two days ago. http://www.findu.com/cgi-bin/find.cgi?call=kd5xb-11&radar=*** Now -- my APRSSIG mail is set to NOMAIL and I'm not sure how to change it WITH MY BLACKBERRY, so I may not see any further comments on this until tomorrow or the next day. 7 3 Earl KD5XB KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry From bruninga at usna.edu Sun Aug 28 14:05:17 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga ) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:05:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] [APRS] Re: PHG and Height Above Average Terrain debate In-Reply-To: References: <093a01cc63fb$49707670$dc516350$@edu> Message-ID: <201108281805.020010@mp6.usna.edu> > Back to the HAAT topic ... > I found this calculator : http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/audio/bickel/haat_calculator.html it gives you ther HAAT for every radial around your QTH. Like any "equation", the results depend entirely on what you want to do. Yes, there is a very formal process for calculating the HAAT EXACTLY, but such an exact number might be practically meaningless in many applications. For example. The HAAT is an AVERAGE. For a tall antenna in a relatively homogeneous topology, such a calculation will give about what you want. An average in all directions. HOWEVER, it is practically meaningless: 1) If the *majority* of users are all in one general direction 2) or 2, the *majority* of Hills or plains are in one general direction. Generally, most REPEATERS and DIGIPEATERS are on hills that serve hams, generallly located to serve and area where all the people are. And people are generraly located not on mountaint tops but in valleys or on plains adjacent to hills. So I always say to figure the HAAT in the general direction of where most of the users are, and or in the direction of the Plains where it will be the greatest and the offset the pattern in that direction. This requires *human* judgment. Just like *every* equation on earth depends on the conditions under which it should and should not be applied. COmputers and equations give perfect answers. usually wrong if the conditions or the inputs are not properly accounted for. Bob, Wb4APR From bruninga at usna.edu Sun Aug 28 14:15:23 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga ) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams Message-ID: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> Cheap Radios for Emergency Preparedness! We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about $14 each and made them available to our entire school ham radio club. The idea being to make sure that all boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the local campus EOC during the Hurricane. Even the Hams found them very handy for short range contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS channel available for logistics and coordination within the club and on scene. This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the HAM channels that are already busy with longer distance traffic. The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, CTCSS and DCS (including CTCSS Scan!) and rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair. We consider them expendible so they are the ones we use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators ntil they get thir licenses. If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent HT's. PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any ham radio. Bob, WB4APR From n5exy at yahoo.com Sun Aug 28 14:18:33 2011 From: n5exy at yahoo.com (Charles Doughtie) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:18:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: <1314555513.91812.YahooMailNeo@web121811.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> YeahBut - - what about the license requirement? They sound like good Justin Case insurance but you cannot get insurance at the moment of need - - - ? "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." Robert A. Heinlein ?I?ll work every day to try to make Washington, D.C. as inconsequential in your life as I can.? Rick Perry ________________________________ From: Bob Bruninga To: aprssig at tapr.org Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:15 PM Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams Cheap Radios for Emergency? Preparedness! We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about $14 each and made them available to our entire school ham radio club.? The idea being to make sure that all boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the local campus EOC during the Hurricane. Even the Hams found them very handy for short range contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS channel available for logistics and coordination within the club and on scene. This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the HAM channels that are already busy with longer distance traffic. The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, CTCSS and DCS? (including CTCSS Scan!) and rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair.? We consider them expendible so they are the ones we use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators ntil they get thir licenses. If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent HT's.? PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any ham radio. Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k9lge at emlorenz.com Sun Aug 28 14:37:22 2011 From: k9lge at emlorenz.com (Eric Lorenz K9LGE) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:37:22 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <1314555513.91812.YahooMailNeo@web121811.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314555513.91812.YahooMailNeo@web121811.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Charles, If they're using them strictly as FRS service, then no license is required. Only if using the GMRS channels. (I believe). Eric Lorenz K9LGE Communications Trailer Coordinator American Red Cross of Greater Chicago Disaster Services Technology 630-430-2421 (cell) On Aug 28, 2011 1:19 PM, "Charles Doughtie" wrote: > YeahBut - - what about the license requirement? They sound like good Justin Case insurance but you cannot get insurance at the moment of need - - - > > > "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." > Robert A. Heinlein > > > ?I?ll work every day to try to make Washington, D.C. as inconsequential in your life as I can.? > Rick Perry > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Bruninga > To: aprssig at tapr.org > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:15 PM > Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > > Cheap Radios for Emergency Preparedness! > > We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about $14 each and made them available to our entire school ham radio club. The idea being to make sure that all boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the local campus EOC during the Hurricane. > > Even the Hams found them very handy for short range contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS channel available for logistics and coordination within the club and on scene. > > This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the HAM channels that are already busy with longer distance traffic. > > The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, CTCSS and DCS (including CTCSS Scan!) and rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair. We consider them expendible so they are the ones we use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. > > Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators ntil they get thir licenses. > > If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent HT's. PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any ham radio. > > Bob, WB4APR > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n5exy at yahoo.com Sun Aug 28 14:49:58 2011 From: n5exy at yahoo.com (Charles Doughtie) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:49:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314555513.91812.YahooMailNeo@web121811.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314557398.95865.YahooMailNeo@web121814.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> True, but not likely to happen. That low power FRS "won't reach the fo'c's'le. ? ________________________________ From: Eric Lorenz K9LGE To: Charles Doughtie ; TAPR APRS Mailing List Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams Charles, If they're using them strictly as FRS service,? then no license is required. Only if using the GMRS channels. (I believe). Eric Lorenz K9LGE Communications Trailer Coordinator American Red Cross of Greater Chicago Disaster Services Technology 630-430-2421 (cell) On Aug 28, 2011 1:19 PM, "Charles Doughtie" wrote: > YeahBut - - what about the license requirement? They sound like good Justin Case insurance but you cannot get insurance at the moment of need - - - > > ? > "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." > Robert A. Heinlein > > > ?I?ll work every day to try to make Washington, D.C. as inconsequential in your life as I can.? > Rick Perry > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Bruninga > To: aprssig at tapr.org > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:15 PM > Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > > Cheap Radios for Emergency? Preparedness! > > We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about $14 each and made them available to our entire school ham radio club.? The idea being to make sure that all boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the local campus EOC during the Hurricane. > > Even the Hams found them very handy for short range contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS channel available for logistics and coordination within the club and on scene. > > This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the HAM channels that are already busy with longer distance traffic. > > The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, CTCSS and DCS? (including CTCSS Scan!) and rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair.? We consider them expendible so they are the ones we use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. > > Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators ntil they get thir licenses. > > If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent HT's.? PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any ham radio. > > Bob, WB4APR > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n5exy at yahoo.com Sun Aug 28 14:57:15 2011 From: n5exy at yahoo.com (Charles Doughtie) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314555513.91812.YahooMailNeo@web121811.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1314557835.56886.YahooMailNeo@web121802.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Make that "won't reach the fo'c'sle." ? ________________________________ From: Eric Lorenz K9LGE To: Charles Doughtie ; TAPR APRS Mailing List Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams Charles, If they're using them strictly as FRS service,? then no license is required. Only if using the GMRS channels. (I believe). Eric Lorenz K9LGE Communications Trailer Coordinator American Red Cross of Greater Chicago Disaster Services Technology 630-430-2421 (cell) On Aug 28, 2011 1:19 PM, "Charles Doughtie" wrote: > YeahBut - - what about the license requirement? They sound like good Justin Case insurance but you cannot get insurance at the moment of need - - - > > ? > "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." > Robert A. Heinlein > > > ?I?ll work every day to try to make Washington, D.C. as inconsequential in your life as I can.? > Rick Perry > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Bruninga > To: aprssig at tapr.org > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:15 PM > Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > > Cheap Radios for Emergency? Preparedness! > > We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about $14 each and made them available to our entire school ham radio club.? The idea being to make sure that all boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the local campus EOC during the Hurricane. > > Even the Hams found them very handy for short range contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS channel available for logistics and coordination within the club and on scene. > > This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the HAM channels that are already busy with longer distance traffic. > > The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, CTCSS and DCS? (including CTCSS Scan!) and rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair.? We consider them expendible so they are the ones we use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. > > Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators ntil they get thir licenses. > > If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent HT's.? PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any ham radio. > > Bob, WB4APR > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k2sar at aol.com Sun Aug 28 15:04:28 2011 From: k2sar at aol.com (k2sar at aol.com) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 15:04:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 Message-ID: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com> Hi all, I am looking for options on which is the best GPS to purchase for use with the D-710. 1) I would like it to be able to show back road U.S. Forest, logging roads, ect. 2) Be portable to use in other vehicles (renter cars, ect) 3) easy to hook up to the D-710 preferring plug n play. 73 Keith, K2SAR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From khufford at atlanticbb.net Sun Aug 28 15:08:13 2011 From: khufford at atlanticbb.net (Kent Hufford) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 15:08:13 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <00cf01cc65b5$d6194cd0$824be670$@net> I you want to "show" anything then you are limited to just about a AVMAP G6, GARMIN 350, or a laptop/net book with a mapping program. Otherwise, the Greenlabs G710 GPS module (from HRO) that stick right on the control head of the D710 is the way to go. Kent KQ4KK From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of k2sar at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:04 PM To: aprssig at tapr.org Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 Hi all, I am looking for options on which is the best GPS to purchase for use with the D-710. 1) I would like it to be able to show back road U.S. Forest, logging roads, ect. 2) Be portable to use in other vehicles (renter cars, ect) 3) easy to hook up to the D-710 preferring plug n play. 73 Keith, K2SAR -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From w0jrt at yahoo.com Sun Aug 28 15:46:41 2011 From: w0jrt at yahoo.com (J T) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 12:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <00cf01cc65b5$d6194cd0$824be670$@net> Message-ID: <1314560801.51244.YahooMailClassic@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Or the new Garmin Montana series.? The Montana 650t comes preloaded with topo maps although you can load other maps into them, too.? It has a large touch-screen display (very nuvi-like), a serial port for direct connection to a D710, and can also be used as a portable GPS. -Jerome, W0JRT --- On Sun, 8/28/11, Kent Hufford wrote: From: Kent Hufford Subject: Re: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 To: "'TAPR APRS Mailing List'" Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:08 PM I you want to "show" anything then you are limited to just about a AVMAP G6, GARMIN 350, or a laptop/net book with a mapping program. ?Otherwise, the Greenlabs G710 GPS module (from HRO) that stick right on the control head of the D710 is the way to go. ?KentKQ4KK ?From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of k2sar at aol.com Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:04 PM To: aprssig at tapr.org Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 ?Hi all, I am looking for?options on which is the best GPS to purchase for use with the D-710.?1)?I would like it to be able to show back road U.S. Forest, logging roads, ect.?2) Be portable to use in other vehicles (renter cars, ect)?3) easy to hook up to the D-710 preferring plug n play.?73 Keith, K2SAR ? -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ka7o at ka7o.net Sun Aug 28 15:53:07 2011 From: ka7o at ka7o.net (KA7O) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:53:07 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <1314555513.91812.YahooMailNeo@web121811.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314555513.91812.YahooMailNeo@web121811.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E5A9CA3.5030909@ka7o.net> There is no licensing requirement for FRS. AND, using FRS HTs like this can be a motivation for those without Amateur Licenses to get their own. Sooner than later, FRS users will grow weary of the limitations. 73 On 08/28/2011 12:18 PM, Charles Doughtie wrote: > YeahBut - - what about the license requirement? They sound like good Justin Case insurance but you cannot get insurance at the moment of need - - - > > > "An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." > Robert A. Heinlein > > > ?I?ll work every day to try to make Washington, D.C. as inconsequential in your life as I can.? > Rick Perry > > > ________________________________ > From: Bob Bruninga > To: aprssig at tapr.org > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:15 PM > Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > > Cheap Radios for Emergency Preparedness! > > We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about $14 each and made them available to our entire school ham radio club. The idea being to make sure that all boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the local campus EOC during the Hurricane. > > Even the Hams found them very handy for short range contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS channel available for logistics and coordination within the club and on scene. > > This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the HAM channels that are already busy with longer distance traffic. > > The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, CTCSS and DCS (including CTCSS Scan!) and rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair. We consider them expendible so they are the ones we use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. > > Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators ntil they get thir licenses. > > If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent HT's. PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any ham radio. > > Bob, WB4APR > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Sun Aug 28 16:14:28 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 16:14:28 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4E5AA1A4.6000209@aol.com> On 8/28/2011 3:04 PM, k2sar at aol.com wrote: > Hi all, I am looking for options on which is the best GPS to purchase for use > with the D-710. > 1) I would like it to be able to show back road U.S. Forest, logging roads, ect. > 2) Be portable to use in other vehicles (renter cars, ect) > 3) easy to hook up to the D-710 preferring plug n play. If you are referring to a full-display car-navigator GPS that will will also map received APRS posits from the D710, then pretty much your ONLY currently-available choice will be the GeoSat AVmap unit which explicitly supports APRS when used with the Kenwoods or the Argent Data Tracker2. I doubt if any USFS back roads show on the AVmap. Unless you get lucky and come across the long-discontinued Garmin 350 which will work with the Kenwoods via Argent's magic "G-Trans" converter cable. (Note that the AVmap gives you a 5.5" screen while the Garmin 350 is a small conventional 3:4 aspect 3.5" screen.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- An alternative would be a cheap lightweight "netbook" PC. Netbooks have been overshadowed by tablets like the iPad, and are now passe in the consumer market. Netbooks are available for around $200 at NewEgg or TigerDirect -- sometimes cheaper on special promotional blowouts. Note that netbooks are actual lightweight X86 Windows PCs, not iOS, Android or Windows Mobile devices. They run normal Windows software including APRS programs like UIview, APRSpoint, APRSi32, etc. A netbook running UIview/Precision Mapping or APRSpoint/MapPoint combined with a cheap USB-interfaced faceless hockeypuck GPS. makes an excellent companion for a Kenwood APRS radio. Precision Mapping can run simultaneously OUTSIDE UIview, even as it is being used for maps INSIDE UIview. This allows you to have APRS operations/display in one window and point-to-point car navigation in a second window at the same time. Precision Mapping shows an astonishing amount (for a consumer app) of dirt road details. Or, you could do as I do and run UIview, Precision Mapping and TopoUSA simultaneously on the netbook with the freeware XPort serial port splitter sharing the GPS data with all three apps at once. As I type this, an Acer ZG5 netbook with 2GB ram, a 200 MB HDD, WiFi and a 1.6GHx "Atom" CPU is connected via a USB<-->serial dongle to my TH-D7 handheld's computer port. It is operating as my "porta-mini" igate/digipeater running UIview with a WiFi link to the Internet, until I can get my main "hamserver" PC igate installation unpacked and running. This netbook is fitted with an oversize battery pack which will run the thing for 9-10 hours without an external power source -- ideal for a temporary instant digi/igate for special events. Or as an instant car navigator with just the GPS attached, and no power hookup required. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Sun Aug 28 16:28:09 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 16:28:09 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <1314560801.51244.YahooMailClassic@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314560801.51244.YahooMailClassic@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4E5AA4D9.5030309@aol.com> On 8/28/2011 3:46 PM, J T wrote: > Or the new Garmin Montana series. The Montana 650t comes preloaded with topo > maps although you can load other maps into them, too. It has a large > touch-screen display (very nuvi-like), a serial port for direct connection to > a D710, and can also be used as a portable GPS. > > -Jerome, W0JRT > From what I can determine from Garmin's own description/specs, it appears to only have a USB interface. There is no mention of a classic RS-232 serial port (required to connect to a Kenwood), nor any mention of FMI support (that allows the USB interface to "morph" into a serial port when a special cable is attached). Note that USB client devices (like this Garmin) CAN NOT be converted to serial with the usual USB<-->serial dongles. USB client devices can only link up with a computer-based master (a.k.a. "server") running appropriate device-specific driver software. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths From mheskett at mindspring.com Sun Aug 28 16:45:24 2011 From: mheskett at mindspring.com (Michael Heskett) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 15:45:24 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <4E5AA4D9.5030309@aol.com> References: <1314560801.51244.YahooMailClassic@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E5AA4D9.5030309@aol.com> Message-ID: <00a301cc65c3$69e73550$3db59ff0$@com> This is listed as an optional cable for the device: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=26668 which is labeled : Serial Data/Power Cable Michael Heskett WB5QLD > -----Original Message----- > From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On > Behalf Of Stephen H. Smith > Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 3:28 PM > To: TAPR APRS Mailing List > Subject: Re: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 > > On 8/28/2011 3:46 PM, J T wrote: > > Or the new Garmin Montana series. The Montana 650t comes preloaded > with topo > > maps although you can load other maps into them, too. It has a large > > touch-screen display (very nuvi-like), a serial port for direct > connection to > > a D710, and can also be used as a portable GPS. > > > > -Jerome, W0JRT > > > > > From what I can determine from Garmin's own description/specs, it > appears to > only have a USB interface. > > There is no mention of a classic RS-232 serial port (required to > connect to a > Kenwood), nor any mention of FMI support (that allows the USB interface > to > "morph" into a serial port when a special cable is attached). > > Note that USB client devices (like this Garmin) CAN NOT be converted to > serial > with the usual USB<-->serial dongles. USB client devices can only link > up with > a computer-based master (a.k.a. "server") running appropriate device- > specific > driver software. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > -------- > > -- > > Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com > === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) > === > Skype: WA8LMF > Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net > > ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping > ===== > http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 > > *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** > http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm > > "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating > http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From russo at bogodyn.org Sun Aug 28 16:52:06 2011 From: russo at bogodyn.org (Tom Russo) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:52:06 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <4E5AA4D9.5030309@aol.com> References: <1314560801.51244.YahooMailClassic@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E5AA4D9.5030309@aol.com> Message-ID: <20110828205206.GA54767@bogodyn.org> On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 04:28:09PM -0400, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > On 8/28/2011 3:46 PM, J T wrote: > > Or the new Garmin Montana series. The Montana 650t comes preloaded with topo > > maps although you can load other maps into them, too. It has a large > > touch-screen display (very nuvi-like), a serial port for direct connection to > > a D710, and can also be used as a portable GPS. > > > > -Jerome, W0JRT > > > > > From what I can determine from Garmin's own description/specs, it appears to > only have a USB interface. > > There is no mention of a classic RS-232 serial port (required to connect to a > Kenwood), nor any mention of FMI support (that allows the USB interface to > "morph" into a serial port when a special cable is attached). FMI and "morph to serial" are separate things. Several of the handheld usb-only Garmin GPS units will indeed "morph to serial NMEA" with just the right cable, even though they don't talk FMI. If you look at the Montana's spec says its interface is "USB and NEMA 0183 compatible," and on its "accessories" page there is a USB "Serial Data/Power" cable https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=26668 with bare wires to access the serial data. This cable is compatible with several of the devices other than the Montana, including the Colorado, Oregon, and GPSMAP 62 series. I believe that the way these devices work (Scott Miller can correct me here if I'm mistaken) is that they detect a certain resistance in the cable between certain pins, and switch from USB to plain RS232 serial protocol on the data pins. FMI, on the other hand, is a specific fleet management protocol that enables appropriately written software to control (and be controlled) by the GPS, and it is usually present only in devices intended for vehicle use. The Montana is targeted for handheld use, particularly for hiking. It is not, as I understand it, specific to whether the actual communication is done over RS232 or USB. I believe the FMI cables generaly *do* also kick the device into serial mode, though. Again, Scott Miller can pipe in and correct me if I've misunderstood him or the various FMI specs I've read. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey From n5exy at yahoo.com Sun Aug 28 17:43:44 2011 From: n5exy at yahoo.com (Charles Doughtie) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 14:43:44 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams Message-ID: <1314567824.86089.YahooMailClassic@web121806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> My error - he did say FRS and I was thinking GMRS bubble-pack radios. I bought a pair of FRS talkies and they are long gone somewhere - just don't get out. I agree they are an incentive to upgrading - much sooner than later. 73 de Charlie, N5EXY, South Suburban Greater Hutto --- On Sun, 8/28/11, KA7O wrote: From: KA7O Subject: Re: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:53 PM There is no licensing requirement for FRS. AND, using FRS HTs like this can be a motivation for those without Amateur Licenses to get their own. Sooner than later, FRS users will grow weary of the limitations. 73 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kg4wsv at gmail.com Sun Aug 28 18:05:02 2011 From: kg4wsv at gmail.com (Jason KG4WSV) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:05:02 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <1314567824.86089.YahooMailClassic@web121806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1314567824.86089.YahooMailClassic@web121806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 4:43 PM, Charles Doughtie wrote: > My error - he did say FRS and I was thinking GMRS bubble-pack radios. Nope, you had it right. Bob said FRS, but described GMRS: 1W (compared to 500mW for FRS) and 22 channels (only 16 for FRS). The radios are frequently both FRS and GMRS. You can't legally operate on the GMRS channels without licensing. -Jason kg4wsv -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kg4wsv at gmail.com Sun Aug 28 18:09:27 2011 From: kg4wsv at gmail.com (Jason KG4WSV) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:09:27 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <00cf01cc65b5$d6194cd0$824be670$@net> References: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com> <00cf01cc65b5$d6194cd0$824be670$@net> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 2:08 PM, Kent Hufford wrote: > I you want to "show" anything then you are limited to just about a AVMAP G6, > GARMIN 350, or a laptop/net book with a mapping program. Not quite. If you want the maximum amount of APRS data displayed, your answer is correct. But _any_ GPS capable of plotting standard NMEA waypoints (or, IIRC, Magellan style waypoints) over a standard NMEA serial interface will plot simple waypoints with callsigns on the GPS, assuming the D710 (or 700, ro D7, or I suspect the D72) is correctly connected and configured. The old serial eTrex units will show waypoints from the radio. My first generation Garmin MAP60C works fine as well, as do many others. -Jason kg4wsv From k9lge at emlorenz.com Sun Aug 28 18:53:29 2011 From: k9lge at emlorenz.com (Eric Lorenz K9LGE) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 17:53:29 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <1314567824.86089.YahooMailClassic@web121806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> References: <1314567824.86089.YahooMailClassic@web121806.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: When I function as Communications lead for the ADA TourdeCure/Chicago..we have the XYL of one of our ops who is not licensed shadow the start/finish grounds people using FRS...she is about 1/2 mile away from us and works great. And she loves being involved. :-) Eric Lorenz K9LGE Communications Trailer Coordinator American Red Cross of Greater Chicago Disaster Services Technology 630-430-2421 (cell) On Aug 28, 2011 4:44 PM, "Charles Doughtie" wrote: > My error - he did say FRS and I was thinking GMRS bubble-pack radios. I bought a pair of FRS talkies and they are long gone somewhere - just don't get out. I agree they are an incentive to upgrading - much sooner than later. > > 73 > de Charlie, N5EXY, > South Suburban Greater Hutto > > > > > > --- On Sun, 8/28/11, KA7O wrote: > > From: KA7O > Subject: Re: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:53 PM > > There is no licensing requirement for FRS. > > AND, using FRS HTs like this can be a motivation for those without > Amateur Licenses to get their own. Sooner than later, FRS users will > grow weary of the limitations. > > 73 > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k9lge at emlorenz.com Sun Aug 28 19:52:18 2011 From: k9lge at emlorenz.com (Eric Lorenz K9LGE) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 18:52:18 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <00a301cc65c3$69e73550$3db59ff0$@com> References: <1314560801.51244.YahooMailClassic@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E5AA4D9.5030309@aol.com> <00a301cc65c3$69e73550$3db59ff0$@com> Message-ID: And the nice thing about the old eTrex units is a)if you look, you can find them cheap, and b) if you don't mind one add'l. piece of hdwe they work great feeding KPC-3's, etc- all you need is a 9-pin null modem adapter. No need then to have to buy the other cable and build one. Eric Eric Lorenz K9LGE Communications Trailer Coordinator American Red Cross of Greater Chicago Disaster Services Technology 630-430-2421 (cell) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Sun Aug 28 21:43:10 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Sun, 28 Aug 2011 21:43:10 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <20110828205206.GA54767@bogodyn.org> References: <1314560801.51244.YahooMailClassic@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E5AA4D9.5030309@aol.com> <20110828205206.GA54767@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: <4E5AEEAE.60602@aol.com> On 8/28/2011 4:52 PM, Tom Russo wrote: > There is no mention of a classic RS-232 serial port (required to connect to a > Kenwood), nor any mention of FMI support (that allows the USB interface to > "morph" into a serial port when a special cable is attached). > FMI and "morph to serial" are separate things. The FMI interface IS serial, but with a screwball proprietary binary data format rather than vanilla NMEA ASCII. > > Several of the handheld usb-only Garmin GPS units will indeed "morph to serial > NMEA" with just the right cable, even though they don't talk FMI. If you look > at the Montana's spec says its interface is "USB and NEMA 0183 compatible," One can have NMEA-0183-format ASCII data over USB rather than serial -- many USB faceless hockeypuck GPSs do exactly this . This is what I assumed they meant in the Montana description. > and on its "accessories" page there is a USB "Serial Data/Power" cable > https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=26668 > with bare wires to access the serial data. This cable is compatible with > several of the devices other than the Montana, including the Colorado, Oregon, > and GPSMAP 62 series. > > I believe that the way these devices work (Scott Miller can correct me here > if I'm mistaken) is that they detect a certain resistance in the cable between > certain pins, and switch from USB to plain RS232 serial protocol on the data > pins. This is how the USB-to-FMI-serial interface morphing works also. It looks as through the complexity of the Garmin USB interfaces has just doubled, with the magic USB-data-line pullup cable on some devices waking up FMI while the pullup wakes up generic NMEA serial on others. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From Richard.Allen at garmin.com Mon Aug 29 10:15:02 2011 From: Richard.Allen at garmin.com (Allen, Richard) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 09:15:02 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <4E5AEEAE.60602@aol.com> References: <1314560801.51244.YahooMailClassic@web160902.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <4E5AA4D9.5030309@aol.com> <20110828205206.GA54767@bogodyn.org> <4E5AEEAE.60602@aol.com> Message-ID: <119F6D8CF29B5540B2B65C1FB8B85CF949D0AF@OLE2K7CCR1.ad.garmin.com> Montana: has NMEA hidden in the USB connector with https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=26668, or use https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=89575 if you want to attach it somewhere. I have this on a motorcycle but haven't run the wires to my TH-D7A yet. Oregon: has NMEA hidden in the USB connector with https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=26668 or https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=1169 GPSMap62: has NMEA hidden in the USB connector with https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=26668 GPSMap78: has a big round NMEA serial port, here's the pigtail https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=519 All of the above units will receive NMEA waypoints and plot them on the map, and there are probably a few more. -KD0LIX From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of Stephen H. Smith Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 8:43 PM To: russo at bogodyn.org; TAPR APRS Mailing List Subject: Re: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 On 8/28/2011 4:52 PM, Tom Russo wrote: There is no mention of a classic RS-232 serial port (required to connect to a Kenwood), nor any mention of FMI support (that allows the USB interface to "morph" into a serial port when a special cable is attached). FMI and "morph to serial" are separate things. The FMI interface IS serial, but with a screwball proprietary binary data format rather than vanilla NMEA ASCII. Several of the handheld usb-only Garmin GPS units will indeed "morph to serial NMEA" with just the right cable, even though they don't talk FMI. If you look at the Montana's spec says its interface is "USB and NEMA 0183 compatible," One can have NMEA-0183-format ASCII data over USB rather than serial -- many USB faceless hockeypuck GPSs do exactly this . This is what I assumed they meant in the Montana description. and on its "accessories" page there is a USB "Serial Data/Power" cable https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=26668 with bare wires to access the serial data. This cable is compatible with several of the devices other than the Montana, including the Colorado, Oregon, and GPSMAP 62 series. I believe that the way these devices work (Scott Miller can correct me here if I'm mistaken) is that they detect a certain resistance in the cable between certain pins, and switch from USB to plain RS232 serial protocol on the data pins. This is how the USB-to-FMI-serial interface morphing works also. It looks as through the complexity of the Garmin USB interfaces has just doubled, with the magic USB-data-line pullup cable on some devices waking up FMI while the pullup wakes up generic NMEA serial on others. ________________________________ -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths ________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, please be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of this e-mail or any attachment is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please contact the sender and delete all copies. Thank you for your cooperation. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rgilson14215 at yahoo.com Mon Aug 29 20:58:58 2011 From: rgilson14215 at yahoo.com (r gilson) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 17:58:58 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: <1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Thought 1/2 watt and no external antennas???? Have the rules changed?? Ron --- On Sun, 8/28/11, Bob Bruninga wrote: From: Bob Bruninga Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams To: aprssig at tapr.org Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:15 PM Cheap Radios for Emergency? Preparedness! We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about $14 each and made them available to our entire school ham radio club.? The idea being to make sure that all boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the local campus EOC during the Hurricane. Even the Hams found them very handy for short range contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS channel available for logistics and coordination within the club and on scene. This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the HAM channels that are already busy with longer distance traffic. The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, CTCSS and DCS? (including CTCSS Scan!) and rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair.? We consider them expendible so they are the ones we use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators ntil they get thir licenses. If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent HT's.? PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any ham radio. Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kc6ete at gmail.com Mon Aug 29 21:15:52 2011 From: kc6ete at gmail.com (david vanhorn) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 19:15:52 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Tri-Square makes some very interesting 900 Mhz SS radios. Configurable, cloneable, many options. Secure, and we've used them at several hotels with no range issues yet. I honestly don't know how far they go, but I know we've never been unable to contact each other. http://www.trisquare.us/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bruninga at usna.edu Mon Aug 29 22:17:43 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga ) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:17:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> > Thought 1/2 watt and no external antennas??? > Have the rules changed?? No. For monitoring in my office, I have a stock FRS radio inside a 2" PVC pipe on the roof. I feed it 6 volts up and bring down speaker audio on a 4 conductor phone line type wiring to my desk about 200' away. Stays in the rules. Stock radio, stock antenna. No rules about where you put the speaker. THough I think there is a rule that it can only be used with type-approved accessories which probably does include plugging into the external speaker jack, though extending the RX capability does not in any way extend its TX range which is the rule's main concern. If I need to respond to a call, I take a portable and walk over to stand by the window to TX. Bob, WB4APR > Ron > > --- On Sun, 8/28/11, Bob Bruninga > wrote: > > From: Bob Bruninga > Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > To: aprssig at tapr.org > Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:15 PM > > Cheap Radios for Emergency Preparedness! > > We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about > $14 each and made them available to our entire school > ham radio club. The idea being to make sure that all > boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the > local campus EOC during the Hurricane. > > Even the Hams found them very handy for short range > contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, > AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS > channel available for logistics and coordination > within the club and on scene. > > This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the > HAM channels that are already busy with longer > distance traffic. > > The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, > CTCSS and DCS (including CTCSS Scan!) and > rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair. > We consider them expendible so they are the ones we > use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. > > Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use > them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators > ntil they get thir licenses. > > If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent > HT's. PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL > are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any > ham radio. > > Bob, WB4APR > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig >________________ >_______________________________________________ >aprssig mailing list >aprssig at tapr.org >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From kb0nly at mchsi.com Mon Aug 29 22:24:30 2011 From: kb0nly at mchsi.com (=?UTF-8?Q?KB=C3=98NLY?=) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 21:24:30 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu><1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: <427AD6A7635242D89D47F01DF5A79FC0@kb0nlyPC> That?s a lot of work that could be accomplished with a cheap analog scanner and an antenna on the roof for receive only purposes like you have. 73, Scott KB?NLY -----Original Message----- From: Bob Bruninga Sent: Monday, August 29, 2011 9:17 PM To: TAPR APRS Mailing List Subject: Re: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > Thought 1/2 watt and no external antennas??? > Have the rules changed?? No. For monitoring in my office, I have a stock FRS radio inside a 2" PVC pipe on the roof. I feed it 6 volts up and bring down speaker audio on a 4 conductor phone line type wiring to my desk about 200' away. Stays in the rules. Stock radio, stock antenna. No rules about where you put the speaker. THough I think there is a rule that it can only be used with type-approved accessories which probably does include plugging into the external speaker jack, though extending the RX capability does not in any way extend its TX range which is the rule's main concern. If I need to respond to a call, I take a portable and walk over to stand by the window to TX. Bob, WB4APR > Ron > > --- On Sun, 8/28/11, Bob Bruninga > wrote: > > From: Bob Bruninga > Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > To: aprssig at tapr.org > Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:15 PM > > Cheap Radios for Emergency Preparedness! > > We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about > $14 each and made them available to our entire school > ham radio club. The idea being to make sure that all > boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the > local campus EOC during the Hurricane. > > Even the Hams found them very handy for short range > contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, > AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS > channel available for logistics and coordination > within the club and on scene. > > This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the > HAM channels that are already busy with longer > distance traffic. > > The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, > CTCSS and DCS (including CTCSS Scan!) and > rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair. > We consider them expendible so they are the ones we > use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. > > Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use > them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators > ntil they get thir licenses. > > If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent > HT's. PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL > are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any > ham radio. > > Bob, WB4APR > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig >________________ >_______________________________________________ >aprssig mailing list >aprssig at tapr.org >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From kb5ily at arrl.net Mon Aug 29 22:30:49 2011 From: kb5ily at arrl.net (KB5ILY - Travis W. Burton) Date: Mon, 29 Aug 2011 22:30:49 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: Bob, could you not use a cat-5 and have mic and ptt also ? On Mon, 29 Aug 2011, Bob Bruninga wrote: >> Thought 1/2 watt and no external antennas??? >> Have the rules changed?? > > No. For monitoring in my office, I have a stock FRS radio inside a 2" PVC pipe on the roof. I feed it 6 volts up and bring down speaker audio on a 4 conductor phone line type wiring to my desk about 200' away. > > Stays in the rules. Stock radio, stock antenna. No rules about where you put the speaker. THough I think there is a rule that it can only be used with type-approved accessories which probably does include plugging into the external speaker jack, though extending the RX capability does not in any way extend its TX range which is the rule's main concern. > > If I need to respond to a call, I take a portable and walk over to stand by the window to TX. > > Bob, WB4APR > > >> Ron >> >> --- On Sun, 8/28/11, Bob Bruninga >> wrote: >> >> From: Bob Bruninga >> Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams >> To: aprssig at tapr.org >> Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:15 PM >> >> Cheap Radios for Emergency Preparedness! >> >> We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about >> $14 each and made them available to our entire school >> ham radio club. The idea being to make sure that all >> boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the >> local campus EOC during the Hurricane. >> >> Even the Hams found them very handy for short range >> contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, >> AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS >> channel available for logistics and coordination >> within the club and on scene. >> >> This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the >> HAM channels that are already busy with longer >> distance traffic. >> >> The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, >> CTCSS and DCS (including CTCSS Scan!) and >> rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair. >> We consider them expendible so they are the ones we >> use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. >> >> Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use >> them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators >> ntil they get thir licenses. >> >> If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent >> HT's. PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL >> are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any >> ham radio. >> >> Bob, WB4APR >> >> _______________________________________________ >> aprssig mailing list >> aprssig at tapr.org >> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig >> ________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> aprssig mailing list >> aprssig at tapr.org >> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > 73 de Travis KB5ILY 870-260-6068 (Phone) -- Travis W. Burton, NP, ESQ., KB5ILY / Arkadelphia AR President, DeGray Amateur Radio club, Inc. EC - Clark County AR / SW Arkansas District Emergency Coord. SATERN, ARRL Instructor & VE, AREC I, II & III W5YI Instructor Internet: mailto:kb5ily at arrl.net WWW: http://www.kb5ily.org GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA Only he who Attempts the Ridiculous can Achieve the Impossible. (WILL HENRY) Linux is my operating system of choice. Computers are like Air Conditioners, they stop working correctly when you open windows. From bruninga at usna.edu Tue Aug 30 09:38:48 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:38:48 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: <027201cc671a$25bd37f0$7137a7d0$@edu> > Bob, could you not use a cat-5 and have mic and ptt also ? Yes, but you would probably get a lot of noise on the Xmiter. I'd pre-amp the mic or take audio from somewhere at LINE level and then attenuate it to Mic level at the radio. This minimizes noise. And since PTT is the same as Mic (combined) on 1 wire, you don't need separate PTT. Just DC ground the mic lead. However, this is probably considered illegal since the FCC rules (I think) say the FRS radios can only be used with "type approved" accessories. Bob On Mon, 29 Aug 2011, Bob Bruninga wrote: >> Thought 1/2 watt and no external antennas??? >> Have the rules changed?? > > No. For monitoring in my office, I have a stock FRS radio inside a 2" PVC pipe on the roof. I feed it 6 volts up and bring down speaker audio on a 4 conductor phone line type wiring to my desk about 200' away. > > Stays in the rules. Stock radio, stock antenna. No rules about where you put the speaker. THough I think there is a rule that it can only be used with type-approved accessories which probably does include plugging into the external speaker jack, though extending the RX capability does not in any way extend its TX range which is the rule's main concern. > > If I need to respond to a call, I take a portable and walk over to stand by the window to TX. > > Bob, WB4APR > > >> Ron >> >> --- On Sun, 8/28/11, Bob Bruninga >> wrote: >> >> From: Bob Bruninga >> Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams >> To: aprssig at tapr.org >> Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:15 PM >> >> Cheap Radios for Emergency Preparedness! >> >> We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about >> $14 each and made them available to our entire school >> ham radio club. The idea being to make sure that all >> boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the >> local campus EOC during the Hurricane. >> >> Even the Hams found them very handy for short range >> contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, >> AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS >> channel available for logistics and coordination >> within the club and on scene. >> >> This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the >> HAM channels that are already busy with longer >> distance traffic. >> >> The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, >> CTCSS and DCS (including CTCSS Scan!) and >> rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair. >> We consider them expendible so they are the ones we >> use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. >> >> Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use >> them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators >> ntil they get thir licenses. >> >> If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent >> HT's. PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL >> are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any >> ham radio. >> >> Bob, WB4APR >> >> _______________________________________________ >> aprssig mailing list >> aprssig at tapr.org >> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig >> ________________ >> _______________________________________________ >> aprssig mailing list >> aprssig at tapr.org >> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > 73 de Travis KB5ILY 870-260-6068 (Phone) -- Travis W. Burton, NP, ESQ., KB5ILY / Arkadelphia AR President, DeGray Amateur Radio club, Inc. EC - Clark County AR / SW Arkansas District Emergency Coord. SATERN, ARRL Instructor & VE, AREC I, II & III W5YI Instructor Internet: mailto:kb5ily at arrl.net WWW: http://www.kb5ily.org GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA Only he who Attempts the Ridiculous can Achieve the Impossible. (WILL HENRY) Linux is my operating system of choice. Computers are like Air Conditioners, they stop working correctly when you open windows. _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From w3ate at earthlink.net Tue Aug 30 10:03:11 2011 From: w3ate at earthlink.net (Dr. John) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 10:03:11 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <027201cc671a$25bd37f0$7137a7d0$@edu> References: <201108281815.020013@mp6.usna.edu> <1314665938.84109.YahooMailClassic@web110208.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> <027201cc671a$25bd37f0$7137a7d0$@edu> Message-ID: Good morning Bob, It's been a long time since we talked on the phone and you started me into the APRS crave. Since then, when I was down in Ft. Lauderdale I started the Club Gold Coast ARC interest in APRS and filled the gap from Boca to North Miami. We built a digi station 140 ft. on a building in Ft. Lauderdale, and gives great coverage. I have now moved Trying to be retired, but that did nit happen. I am now the Chief of Ecomms for Pocahontas Search & Rescue, and deigning the system for the entire county which is larger then Road Island and Delaware placed together. Now for the issue. I just bought a TH-D700, but the info I just received is for a 710. The There are some issues that I just don't understand and need some major help. I have a cabin on Droop mountain 3963 ft, great VHF site and for APRS. I', am also introducing APRS to the new Search and Rescue teams. There are some menus that I'm not understanding. If I have a phone number and could call at your convince, or just email the major questions. there was issues that when I read the manual and proceeded was different then what I saw in a email from you. Hoping all going well , and that the hurricane did not do major damage in Annapolis, where if I remember is your QTH. Also, just to add to the FRS, we now plan to issue FRS to all the search team members. Then a high power handheld to the team leader which he can communicate back to the Command Center. This now lower the cost of local comms. A major savings. We are also addressing the TH-D72 handheld to each team leader as when they connect back to the Command Communication center we will have an accurate location, as to each team. Regards, Dr. John Gregory, W3ATE/8 -------------------------------------------------- From: "Bob Bruninga" Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 9:38 AM To: "'KB5ILY - Travis W. Burton'" ; "'TAPR APRS Mailing List'" Subject: Re: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams >> Bob, could you not use a cat-5 and have mic and ptt also ? > > Yes, but you would probably get a lot of noise on the Xmiter. I'd pre-amp > the mic or take audio from somewhere at LINE level and then attenuate it > to > Mic level at the radio. This minimizes noise. And since PTT is the same > as > Mic (combined) on 1 wire, you don't need separate PTT. Just DC ground the > mic lead. > > However, this is probably considered illegal since the FCC rules (I think) > say the FRS radios can only be used with "type approved" accessories. > > Bob > > > On Mon, 29 Aug 2011, Bob Bruninga wrote: > >>> Thought 1/2 watt and no external antennas??? >>> Have the rules changed?? >> >> No. For monitoring in my office, I have a stock FRS radio inside a 2" >> PVC > pipe on the roof. I feed it 6 volts up and bring down speaker audio on a > 4 > conductor phone line type wiring to my desk about 200' away. >> >> Stays in the rules. Stock radio, stock antenna. No rules about where >> you > put the speaker. THough I think there is a rule that it can only be used > with type-approved accessories which probably does include plugging into > the > external speaker jack, though extending the RX capability does not in any > way extend its TX range which is the rule's main concern. >> >> If I need to respond to a call, I take a portable and walk over to stand > by the window to TX. >> >> Bob, WB4APR >> >> >>> Ron >>> >>> --- On Sun, 8/28/11, Bob Bruninga >>> wrote: >>> >>> From: Bob Bruninga >>> Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams >>> To: aprssig at tapr.org >>> Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, 2:15 PM >>> >>> Cheap Radios for Emergency Preparedness! >>> >>> We bought 10 pairs of FRS radios amounting to about >>> $14 each and made them available to our entire school >>> ham radio club. The idea being to make sure that all >>> boots-on-the-ground could contact each other and the >>> local campus EOC during the Hurricane. >>> >>> Even the Hams found them very handy for short range >>> contact so that their HT could remain on the EOC, >>> AREA/RACES and other vital channels, leaving the FRS >>> channel available for logistics and coordination >>> within the club and on scene. >>> >>> This sure keeps a lot of simplex traffic off of the >>> HAM channels that are already busy with longer >>> distance traffic. >>> >>> The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF with 22 channels, PL, >>> CTCSS and DCS (including CTCSS Scan!) and >>> rechargeable batteries and charger for $28 a pair. >>> We consider them expendible so they are the ones we >>> use in the rain, over the water, and into the mud. >>> >>> Plus the unlicensed newcomers to the club can use >>> them to stay in touch with our Cadre of communicators >>> ntil they get thir licenses. >>> >>> If you are Radioactive, dont overlook these excellent >>> HT's. PS. I measured several on a Sig gen and ALL >>> are identical 0.2 uV or so sensitive as good as any >>> ham radio. >>> >>> Bob, WB4APR >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> aprssig mailing list >>> aprssig at tapr.org >>> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig >>> ________________ >>> _______________________________________________ >>> aprssig mailing list >>> aprssig at tapr.org >>> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig >> >> _______________________________________________ >> aprssig mailing list >> aprssig at tapr.org >> https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig >> > > 73 de Travis KB5ILY > 870-260-6068 (Phone) > -- > Travis W. Burton, NP, ESQ., KB5ILY / Arkadelphia AR > President, DeGray Amateur Radio club, Inc. > EC - Clark County AR / SW Arkansas District Emergency Coord. > SATERN, ARRL Instructor & VE, AREC I, II & III > W5YI Instructor > Internet: mailto:kb5ily at arrl.net > WWW: http://www.kb5ily.org > GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA > Only he who Attempts the Ridiculous can Achieve the Impossible. (WILL > HENRY) > Linux is my operating system of choice. > > Computers are like Air Conditioners, > they stop working correctly when you open windows. > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From bruninga at usna.edu Tue Aug 30 15:46:41 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 15:46:41 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Message-ID: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> APRS Talk in Los Alamos? Or maybe Santa FE? Or Albuquerque? I'll be stuck in Arizona the evening of 8 Sept awaiting an airline flight the next morning. If anybody wants to get together and talk about APRS in any of those areas, lemme know. Bob, WB4APR From earl.kd5xb at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 15:48:28 2011 From: earl.kd5xb at gmail.com (Earl Needham) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 19:48:28 +0000 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Message-ID: <1938557913-1314733710-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-767272086-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> Those places are all a looooong way from any commercial airport in Arizona -- what do you have in mind? Vy 7 3 Earl KD5XB ------Original Message------ From: Bob Bruninga Sender: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org To: APRS at yahoogroups.com To: TAPR APRS Mailing List ReplyTo: TAPR APRS Mailing List Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Sent: Aug 30, 2011 13:46 APRS Talk in Los Alamos? Or maybe Santa FE? Or Albuquerque? I'll be stuck in Arizona the evening of 8 Sept awaiting an airline flight the next morning. If anybody wants to get together and talk about APRS in any of those areas, lemme know. Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry From bruninga at usna.edu Tue Aug 30 18:23:03 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:23:03 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <1938557913-1314733710-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-767272086-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <1938557913-1314733710-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-767272086-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <031101cc6763$6252f990$26f8ecb0$@edu> > Those places are all a looooong way from... Arizona > what do you have in mind? Well, apparently not much! Brain f at rt Meant New Mexico (Albuquerque airport)... Bob, WB4APR ------Original Message------ From: Bob Bruninga Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Sent: Aug 30, 2011 13:46 APRS Talk in Los Alamos? Or maybe Santa FE? Or Albuquerque? I'll be stuck in Arizona the evening of 8 Sept awaiting an airline flight the next morning. If anybody wants to get together and talk about APRS in any of those areas, lemme know. Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From earl.kd5xb at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 18:26:26 2011 From: earl.kd5xb at gmail.com (Earl Needham) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:26:26 +0000 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Message-ID: <1555363817-1314743190-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-982371707-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> Hahaha! Those of us in New Mexico get that m time to time. I've actually had an online order rejected because that company "didn't accept orders from outside the Unites States"! LOL! I'm in Denver, so can't make it. Should go through Albuquerque tomorrow afternoon. Shucks! Vy 7 3 Earl KD5XB ------Original Message------ From: Bob Bruninga To: My Gmail Earl Needham To: TAPR APRS Mailing List To: APRS at yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Sent: Aug 30, 2011 16:23 > Those places are all a looooong way from... Arizona > what do you have in mind? Well, apparently not much! Brain f at rt Meant New Mexico (Albuquerque airport)... Bob, WB4APR ------Original Message------ From: Bob Bruninga Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Sent: Aug 30, 2011 13:46 APRS Talk in Los Alamos? Or maybe Santa FE? Or Albuquerque? I'll be stuck in Arizona the evening of 8 Sept awaiting an airline flight the next morning. If anybody wants to get together and talk about APRS in any of those areas, lemme know. Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry From earl.kd5xb at gmail.com Tue Aug 30 18:27:48 2011 From: earl.kd5xb at gmail.com (Earl Needham) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 22:27:48 +0000 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Message-ID: <1151175971-1314743270-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1075613111-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> Oops, 8 Sep isn't here yet! MY turn! Earl ------Original Message------ From: Bob Bruninga To: My Gmail Earl Needham To: TAPR APRS Mailing List To: APRS at yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Sent: Aug 30, 2011 16:23 > Those places are all a looooong way from... Arizona > what do you have in mind? Well, apparently not much! Brain f at rt Meant New Mexico (Albuquerque airport)... Bob, WB4APR ------Original Message------ From: Bob Bruninga Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Sent: Aug 30, 2011 13:46 APRS Talk in Los Alamos? Or maybe Santa FE? Or Albuquerque? I'll be stuck in Arizona the evening of 8 Sept awaiting an airline flight the next morning. If anybody wants to get together and talk about APRS in any of those areas, lemme know. Bob, WB4APR _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry From ws5n at wildblue.net Tue Aug 30 19:05:25 2011 From: ws5n at wildblue.net (J. Gary Bender, WS5N) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 17:05:25 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> Message-ID: <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russo at bogodyn.org Tue Aug 30 20:18:07 2011 From: russo at bogodyn.org (Tom Russo) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:18:07 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> Message-ID: <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 05:05:25PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > [you might want to adjust your mail program to send only plain text email to APRSSIG --- those of us using old-fashioned text mail programs get to see all the HTML markup, which I've hand-edited out in my reply] >While there I hope you can monitor the APRS traffic around the city.  When I drive in to Albuquerque, I start hearing "MY POS" repeats sometimes three or four times each time I beacon.  I have heard it as much as 7 times!  I am running WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the mobile.  I have my suspicions as to what is happening, but I don't have the expertise to analyze the situation and make recommendations.  I'd love to hear your take on it, if you see the same behavior. That's because all the nearby digis are ancient KPC-3 TNCs with old firmware, with broken handling of WIDEn-N: they fail to mark the final hop as used, so if WIDEn-N were implemented normally the path you are using would only be a one-hop path: first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 First digipeat: LAMOSC*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 First digipeat(2): SANDIA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 First digipeat(3): CAPILA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 First digipeat(4): ELKMTN*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 (etc. for every digi that happens to hear you) End of line, because nobody will digipeat this (WIDE1 is showing as the first unused digi, and nobody will do anything with that). SO, the work-around is that all of these digis have a workaround in place: MYALIAS is set to WIDE1-1, with all the problems that go with it --- notably, no dupe checking on the first hop. So you get THIS mess instead: first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 First hop: LAMOSC*,WIDE2-1 First hop(2): SANDIA*,WIDE2-1 First hop(3): CAPILA*,WIDE2-1 First hop(4): ELKMTN*,,WIDE2-1 and then Second hop: LAMOSC*,SANDIA*,WIDE2 Second hop: LAMOSC*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 Second hop: LAMOSC*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 Second hop: SANDIA*,LAMOSC*,WIDE2 Second hop: SANDIA*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 Second hop: SANDIA*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 and so on and so on. That is, if you use WIDE1-1 you're no better than the Bad Old Days of RELAY,WIDE, thanks to outdated hardware with outdated firmware. The KPC-3's are all donated hardware from WA5IHL who used to maintain a large number of normal packet nodes with them, and repurposed them in the early days of APRS. It is not reasonable to expect that they'll all be replaced in any sort of short order with more modern hardware/firmware, so we're stuck with the local advice NOT to use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the central New Mexico area --- just use WIDE2-2 so that all dupe checking is actually done properly. With WIDE2-2, no ping-ponging is possible, you get fewer "MY POS" beeps on your D7X0, and the channel gets less congestion. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey From noskosteve at yahoo.com Tue Aug 30 21:16:08 2011 From: noskosteve at yahoo.com (Steve Noskowicz) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:16:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314753368.64666.YahooMailClassic@web112614.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> John, What you need may be in by guide. I show typical menu settings for the D700: http://home.comcast.net/~k9dci/site/?/page/APRS_Beginner_INFO -- 73, Steve, K9DCI USN (Vet) MOT (Ret) Ham (Yet) -- I served during the cold war, so you can continue to be served a cold one. Up to date APRS Beginner Guide - updated Apr-2010 http://K9DCI.home.comcast.net Click 'APRS Beginner INFO' under Contact Manage Radio Memories with an Excel Spreadsheet ! Click to tune. Click to capture Radio freq. All Memories on one page. Cut, Copy, Paste, Print 'em, etc... For: TM-D700 | TH-F6A | TS-2000 | Icom 706MkIIG All PMs |Real-time & memories | Sat mems too | Loads Mem Tones! NOT D710 More Details, Features and Downloads at: http://k9dci.home.comcast.net/ --- On Tue, 8/30/11, Dr. John wrote: > From: Dr. John > Subject: Re: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams > To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" > Date: Tuesday, August 30, 2011, 9:03 AM > ... I just bought a TH-D700, but the info I just received is > for a 710. > The There are some issues that I just don't understand and > need some major help. > I have a cabin on Droop mountain 3963 ft, great VHF site > and for APRS. I', am also introducing APRS to the new Search > and Rescue teams. > There are some menus that I'm not understanding. > ... there was issues that when I read the manual and proceeded > was different then what I saw in a email from you. ... > Regards, > Dr. John Gregory, W3ATE/8 > From noskosteve at yahoo.com Tue Aug 30 21:25:14 2011 From: noskosteve at yahoo.com (Steve Noskowicz) Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:25:14 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> Message-ID: <1314753914.77275.YahooMailClassic@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> --- Bob Bruninga wrote: > ... I have a stock FRS radio ...on the roof.? I feed it 6 > volts up and bring down speaker audio on a 4 conductor phone > line ...to my desk about 200' away. ... > ... it can only be used with type-approved accessories ... > Bob, WB4APR Cool idea, but ... Clearing throat with a little vigor... Unless a "standard type approved accessory" is a 200' power and speaker extension cable, you've stretched the rules beyond recognition by about 200' ... (;-) Steve K9DCI > > > >???Ron > > > >???--- On Sun, 8/28/11, Bob Bruninga > > >???wrote: > > > >? ???From: Bob Bruninga > >? ???Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS > and Ham Response teams > >? ???To: aprssig at tapr.org > >? ???Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, > 2:15 PM > > > >? ???Cheap Radios for > Emergency? Preparedness! > > > >? ???We bought 10 pairs of FRS > radios amounting to about > >? ???$14 each and made them > available to our entire school > >? ???ham radio club.? The idea > being to make sure that all > >? ???boots-on-the-ground could > contact each other and the > >? ???local campus EOC during the > Hurricane. > > > >? ???Even the Hams found them very > handy for short range > >? ???contact so that their HT could > remain on the EOC, > >? ???AREA/RACES and other vital > channels, leaving the FRS > >? ???channel available for > logistics and coordination > >? ???within the club and on scene. > > > >? ???This sure keeps a lot of > simplex traffic off of the > >? ???HAM channels that are already > busy with longer > >? ???distance traffic. > > > >? ???The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF > with 22 channels, PL, > >? ???CTCSS and DCS? (including > CTCSS Scan!) and > >? ???rechargeable batteries and > charger for $28 a pair. > >? ???We consider them expendible so > they are the ones we > >? ???use in the rain, over the > water, and into the mud. > > > >? ???Plus the unlicensed newcomers > to the club can use > >? ???them to stay in touch with our > Cadre of communicators > >? ???ntil they get thir licenses. > > > >? ???If you are Radioactive, dont > overlook these excellent > >? ???HT's.? PS. I measured > several on a Sig gen and ALL > >? ???are identical 0.2 uV or so > sensitive as good as any > >? ???ham radio. > > > >? ???Bob, WB4APR > > > >? > ???_______________________________________________ > >? ???aprssig mailing list > >? ???aprssig at tapr.org > >? ???https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > >________________ > >_______________________________________________ > >aprssig mailing list > >aprssig at tapr.org > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > From richard.corfield at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 08:28:09 2011 From: richard.corfield at gmail.com (Richard Corfield) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:28:09 +0100 Subject: [aprssig] Clock/timing accuracy when generating an APRS signal Message-ID: Looking at the AX25 standard it seems designed to withstand some amount of error in the timing accuracy of the devices sending or receiving the message. There can be no more than 5 bits before a transition between the two tones, so if a device can adjust based on the transitions or if it can adjust using the special flags it should be able to synchronise. I've found in experiments the opposite. I need an accurate clock source in my generator for it to be received - at least by the AGWTracker software. What typical errors can I get away with for most receivers if any? I assume I am right in my assessment and it is not a slight change in ratios between different timings that effected it. Changing to an accurate clock meant changing clock speed, so recalculating delays, so different rounding errors. Thanks - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Wed Aug 31 12:20:23 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:20:23 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Clock/timing accuracy when generating an APRS signal In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4E5E5F47.5090106@aol.com> On 8/31/2011 8:28 AM, Richard Corfield wrote: > I've found in experiments the opposite. I need an accurate clock source in my > generator for it to be received - at least by the AGWTracker software. > > Are you using a soundcard softmodem like AGW Packet Engine with Tracker? If so, there will be wild variations in timing if you are running it on the "brain-dead" parts-reduced basic sound system embedded in the motherboard of most modern PCs. Classic add-on sound cards did most of the heavy lifting of decoding and synthesizing audio with dedicated hardware controlled by an accurate crystal-controlled timebase. The cheap motherboard-based systems have replaced most of this with a simple A/D converter and massive software stacks running on the machine's main CPU instead. The sound card sampling processes derive their timing from interrupts asserted on the CPU. Depending on how many other processes are running at the same time competing for attention by the CPU and the number of pending interrupts, the latency in acknowledging interrupts can vary wildly. This contributes to random phase jitter in the decoding/tone generation process. Further, depending on how many other programs (including background apps like firewalls, virus scanners, instant messengers, printer status monitors, etc) are running at a given time, the sample rate timing in sound card apps can actually change by hundreds of parts per million. If you go through the sample rate calibration drill on a sound card app like mmSSTV or MixW, and then start up power-hog programs like MS Outlook, Photoshop, Firefox, etc, you will actually see the sample rate in the sound card app, as shown by their calibration utilities, change by 50-100 ppm. [This el-cheapo approach has become nearly universal on PCs since CPU throughput went through the stratosphere with the first Pentium One MMX cpus. The CPU has so much throughput, most unused, it's cheaper to burn up CPU clock cycles and interrupts simulating a sound card in software than spending $5 (and the necessary PC board real-estate) on dedicated sound card chips. This same "do-away-with hardware-and-dump-it-on-a-fast-CPU-with-huge-software-drivers-instead" design approach is used with modern cost-reduced Windows GDI printers, and the final generation of dial-up 56K "WinModems". ] Substituting a "classic" hardware-based sound system, either internal like a Soundblaster PCI card or an external USB-connected one, will make a MAJOR difference in the performance and reliability of sound-card softmodems. Note that you don't need a fancy card with Dolby 5.1 surround, "SRS 3-D audio", etc. Just a basic $20 two-channel PCI sound card. External sound systems (including the Tigertronics SignalLink USB which is actually an external sound system combined with a ham interface in a single box) have another advantage: The analog part of the sound system is removed from the firestorm of digital noise, switching power-supply hash and AC ground-loop hum present on most motherboards. The noise floor of the analog input on an external device is often 10-20 dB lower, which makes a noticeable difference in real-world weak-signal copy, by not adding noise to a signal already degraded by less than full quieting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths From bruninga at usna.edu Wed Aug 31 12:51:14 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:51:14 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <1314753914.77275.YahooMailClassic@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <201108300217.020264@mp6.usna.edu> <1314753914.77275.YahooMailClassic@web112617.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <03de01cc67fe$321f7be0$965e73a0$@edu> The FRS rules would be stretched if I *transmitted*. I don?t think they apply for a remote speaker. That is why I said that if I have to reply(TX), I walk over to the window with my handheld FRS radio to transmit.. Bob --- Bob Bruninga wrote: > ... I have a stock FRS radio ...on the roof.? I feed it 6 > volts up and bring down speaker audio on a 4 conductor phone > line ...to my desk about 200' away. ... > ... it can only be used with type-approved accessories ... > Bob, WB4APR Cool idea, but ... Clearing throat with a little vigor... Unless a "standard type approved accessory" is a 200' power and speaker extension cable, you've stretched the rules beyond recognition by about 200' ... (;-) Steve K9DCI > > > >???Ron > > > >???--- On Sun, 8/28/11, Bob Bruninga > > >???wrote: > > > >? ???From: Bob Bruninga > >? ???Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS > and Ham Response teams > >? ???To: aprssig at tapr.org > >? ???Date: Sunday, August 28, 2011, > 2:15 PM > > > >? ???Cheap Radios for > Emergency? Preparedness! > > > >? ???We bought 10 pairs of FRS > radios amounting to about > >? ???$14 each and made them > available to our entire school > >? ???ham radio club.? The idea > being to make sure that all > >? ???boots-on-the-ground could > contact each other and the > >? ???local campus EOC during the > Hurricane. > > > >? ???Even the Hams found them very > handy for short range > >? ???contact so that their HT could > remain on the EOC, > >? ???AREA/RACES and other vital > channels, leaving the FRS > >? ???channel available for > logistics and coordination > >? ???within the club and on scene. > > > >? ???This sure keeps a lot of > simplex traffic off of the > >? ???HAM channels that are already > busy with longer > >? ???distance traffic. > > > >? ???The FRS radios are 1 watt UHF > with 22 channels, PL, > >? ???CTCSS and DCS? (including > CTCSS Scan!) and > >? ???rechargeable batteries and > charger for $28 a pair. > >? ???We consider them expendible so > they are the ones we > >? ???use in the rain, over the > water, and into the mud. > > > >? ???Plus the unlicensed newcomers > to the club can use > >? ???them to stay in touch with our > Cadre of communicators > >? ???ntil they get thir licenses. > > > >? ???If you are Radioactive, dont > overlook these excellent > >? ???HT's.? PS. I measured > several on a Sig gen and ALL > >? ???are identical 0.2 uV or so > sensitive as good as any > >? ???ham radio. > > > >? ???Bob, WB4APR > > > >? > ???_______________________________________________ > >? ???aprssig mailing list > >? ???aprssig at tapr.org > >? ???https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > >________________ > >_______________________________________________ > >aprssig mailing list > >aprssig at tapr.org > >https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From bruninga at usna.edu Wed Aug 31 13:10:21 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:10:21 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> Tom, EXCELLENT explanation! Now would this problem go away if people used the WIDE2-2 path in that area instead of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1?? I think so, because then the DUPE filter would work on the 2nd hop? If this fixes it, then our goal would be to get ALL such OLD KPC-3's to have a BEACON that says something like: "Use W2-2." Especiall in an area whre most of the TNC's have this problem? Bob, Wb4APR -----Original Message----- From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of Tom Russo Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:18 PM To: TAPR APRS Mailing List Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 05:05:25PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > [you might want to adjust your mail program to send only plain text email to APRSSIG --- those of us using old-fashioned text mail programs get to see all the HTML markup, which I've hand-edited out in my reply] >While there I hope you can monitor the APRS traffic around the city.  When I drive in to Albuquerque, I start hearing "MY POS" repeats sometimes three or four times each time I beacon.  I have heard it as much as 7 times!  I am running WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the mobile.  I have my suspicions as to what is happening, but I don't have the expertise to analyze the situation and make recommendations.  I'd love to hear your take on it, if you see the same behavior. That's because all the nearby digis are ancient KPC-3 TNCs with old firmware, with broken handling of WIDEn-N: they fail to mark the final hop as used, so if WIDEn-N were implemented normally the path you are using would only be a one-hop path: first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 First digipeat: LAMOSC*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 First digipeat(2): SANDIA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 First digipeat(3): CAPILA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 First digipeat(4): ELKMTN*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 (etc. for every digi that happens to hear you) End of line, because nobody will digipeat this (WIDE1 is showing as the first unused digi, and nobody will do anything with that). SO, the work-around is that all of these digis have a workaround in place: MYALIAS is set to WIDE1-1, with all the problems that go with it --- notably, no dupe checking on the first hop. So you get THIS mess instead: first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 First hop: LAMOSC*,WIDE2-1 First hop(2): SANDIA*,WIDE2-1 First hop(3): CAPILA*,WIDE2-1 First hop(4): ELKMTN*,,WIDE2-1 and then Second hop: LAMOSC*,SANDIA*,WIDE2 Second hop: LAMOSC*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 Second hop: LAMOSC*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 Second hop: SANDIA*,LAMOSC*,WIDE2 Second hop: SANDIA*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 Second hop: SANDIA*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 and so on and so on. That is, if you use WIDE1-1 you're no better than the Bad Old Days of RELAY,WIDE, thanks to outdated hardware with outdated firmware. The KPC-3's are all donated hardware from WA5IHL who used to maintain a large number of normal packet nodes with them, and repurposed them in the early days of APRS. It is not reasonable to expect that they'll all be replaced in any sort of short order with more modern hardware/firmware, so we're stuck with the local advice NOT to use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the central New Mexico area --- just use WIDE2-2 so that all dupe checking is actually done properly. With WIDE2-2, no ping-ponging is possible, you get fewer "MY POS" beeps on your D7X0, and the channel gets less congestion. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From russo at bogodyn.org Wed Aug 31 13:16:41 2011 From: russo at bogodyn.org (Tom Russo) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:16:41 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> Message-ID: <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 01:10:21PM -0400, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > Tom, > > EXCELLENT explanation! > > Now would this problem go away if people used the WIDE2-2 path in that area > instead of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1?? I think so, because then the DUPE filter would > work on the 2nd hop? Yes, it would. > If this fixes it, then our goal would be to get ALL such OLD KPC-3's to have > a BEACON that says something like: "Use W2-2." Especiall in an area whre > most of the TNC's have this problem? The recommendation to use W2-2 is in fact on the web page of the club that maintains the digis (www.urfmsi.org). I agree that it would be a good idea for those digis to have some kind of standard beacon that would be easily recognized by users. What format and means do you suggest? I could possibly pass it on to the fellow who maintains the digis. It might be some time, though, before it gets implemented. > -----Original Message----- > From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf > Of Tom Russo > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:18 PM > To: TAPR APRS Mailing List > Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 05:05:25PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron > collision of the flavor, containing: > > > > [you might want to adjust your mail program to send only plain text email to > APRSSIG --- those of us using old-fashioned text mail programs get to see > all the HTML markup, which I've hand-edited out in my reply] > > >While there I hope you can monitor the APRS traffic around the city. >  When I drive in to Albuquerque, I start hearing "MY POS" repeats > sometimes three or four times each time I beacon.  I have heard it as > much as 7 times!  I am running WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the mobile.  I > have my suspicions as to what is happening, but I don't have the expertise > to analyze the situation and make recommendations.  I'd love to hear > your take on it, if you see the same behavior. > > That's because all the nearby digis are ancient KPC-3 TNCs with old > firmware, > with broken handling of WIDEn-N: they fail to mark the final hop as used, > so if WIDEn-N were implemented normally the path you are using would only > be a one-hop path: > > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat: LAMOSC*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(2): SANDIA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(3): CAPILA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(4): ELKMTN*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > (etc. for every digi that happens to hear you) > End of line, because nobody will digipeat this (WIDE1 is showing as the > first unused digi, and nobody will do anything with that). > > SO, the work-around is that all of these digis have a workaround in place: > MYALIAS is set to WIDE1-1, with all the problems that go with it --- > notably, > no dupe checking on the first hop. So you get THIS mess instead: > > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > First hop: LAMOSC*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(2): SANDIA*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(3): CAPILA*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(4): ELKMTN*,,WIDE2-1 > and then > Second hop: LAMOSC*,SANDIA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: LAMOSC*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: LAMOSC*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,LAMOSC*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > and so on and so on. > > > That is, if you use WIDE1-1 you're no better than the Bad Old Days of > RELAY,WIDE, thanks to outdated hardware with outdated firmware. > > The KPC-3's are all donated hardware from WA5IHL who used to maintain a > large > number of normal packet nodes with them, and repurposed them in the early > days of APRS. It is not reasonable to expect that they'll all be replaced > in any sort of short order with more modern hardware/firmware, so we're > stuck > with the local advice NOT to use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the central New Mexico > area --- just use WIDE2-2 so that all dupe checking is actually done > properly. > With WIDE2-2, no ping-ponging is possible, you get fewer "MY POS" beeps > on your D7X0, and the channel gets less congestion. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey From curt.we7u at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 13:29:00 2011 From: curt.we7u at gmail.com (Curt, WE7U) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 10:29:00 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Tom Russo wrote: > On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 01:10:21PM -0400, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: >> >> If this fixes it, then our goal would be to get ALL such OLD KPC-3's to have >> a BEACON that says something like: "Use W2-2." Especiall in an area whre >> most of the TNC's have this problem? > > The recommendation to use W2-2 is in fact on the web page of the club that > maintains the digis (www.urfmsi.org). I agree that it would be a good idea > for those digis to have some kind of standard beacon that would be > easily recognized by users. What format and means do you suggest? Please don't beacon "Use W2-2"... People will enter exactly that on non-Kenwood rigs or S/W and create a mess. Spell it out: Beacon "Use WIDE2-2" for those areas. This is probably a case of "what you meant", not "what you said", but I want to be sure there's no misunderstanding when it gets to the user base. -- Curt, WE7U. http://www.eskimo.com/~archer APRS: Where it's at! http://www.xastir.org From wa7ixk at embarqmail.com Wed Aug 31 13:42:11 2011 From: wa7ixk at embarqmail.com (DALE) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:42:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: <03de01cc67fe$321f7be0$965e73a0$@edu> Message-ID: <1632571388.265420.1314812531884.JavaMail.root@md36.embarq.synacor.com> I thought you had one of those Radio Shack thingies you could remote mount the antenna radio portion, The other end was the microphone and controls. I have one, got it after you mention it years ago when they were closed out. I sprung for the GMRS license and now have two 4 watt radios. Dale ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Bruninga" To: "TAPR APRS Mailing List" Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 9:51:14 AM Subject: Re: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams The FRS rules would be stretched if I *transmitted*. I don?t think they apply for a remote speaker. That is why I said that if I have to reply(TX), I walk over to the window with my handheld FRS radio to transmit.. Bob From bruninga at usna.edu Wed Aug 31 13:55:03 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:55:03 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! In-Reply-To: <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> > Yes, it would. > What format and means do you suggest? This is the best news since 2004 New-N Paradigm! * In 2004 we standardized APRS on WIDEn-N (including W1-1,W2-1) * In 2005 We standardized Digi localinfo Beacons to include - Digi info format (W2, SSn-n.) (or W3, etc) - Local Freq Objects for Voice, IRLP and Echolink, etc * Now, in 2011 we solve the old KPC-3 problem! Instead of the "W2, SSn-N..." format for the digibeacon, we now suggest for these old KPC-3's to use a new format "W2-2 SSn-N...". Where the "W2-2" is the Key to mean "Do not use W1-1 in this area. Use only W2-2 (or W3-3 if ok). If every old KPC-3 with the dupe problem used this standard beacon, then we can now educate people that when they see that specific "Wx-X..." nomenclature that it means to only use that path because that digi is a duping KPC-3. SO basically we are changing the "W2" to a "W2-2" as a subtle but standardized way to convey this info to users (or W3-3 in some areas). Remember, under the 2005 http://aprs.org/localinfo.html recommendations, what comes out of a digi to its immediate users are: 1) The digi beacon every 10 minutes DIRECT 2) The digi beacon every 60 minutes via 2 hops *(see below) 3) Local FREQ object(a) every 10m direct 4) Local FREQ object(b) every 10m direct 5) Local Freq object(c) every 10m direct Problem is that my guess is fewer than 1 in 3 digis ever even upgraded to the 2005 Local-Info initiative (beacons 3,4,5 above). But this is a good time to do all of that. Would that work? The goal everywhere is that if your radio has been on for 10 minutes, your APRS radio should capture all the local info of value, the DIGI, Voice, Echolink and IRLP or other info. NOTE: I think there should be two options for the DX beacon (#2 above). As shown, it is for large sparse networks like New Mexico or something where you want to see the overall network of digis (few people out there). But for dense areas like back-east, I think making the DX beacon every 30 minutes is no more total packets but then at least every 30 minutes lets you see the next digi beyond the one you are currently in. Back east, waiting an hour for that info is too long to wait. Bob, Wb4APR -----Original Message----- From: Tom Russo [mailto:russo at bogodyn.org] Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 1:17 PM To: Bob Bruninga Cc: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 01:10:21PM -0400, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > Tom, > > EXCELLENT explanation! > > Now would this problem go away if people used the WIDE2-2 path in that area > instead of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1?? I think so, because then the DUPE filter would > work on the 2nd hop? Yes, it would. > If this fixes it, then our goal would be to get ALL such OLD KPC-3's to have > a BEACON that says something like: "Use W2-2." Especiall in an area whre > most of the TNC's have this problem? The recommendation to use W2-2 is in fact on the web page of the club that maintains the digis (www.urfmsi.org). I agree that it would be a good idea for those digis to have some kind of standard beacon that would be easily recognized by users. What format and means do you suggest? I could possibly pass it on to the fellow who maintains the digis. It might be some time, though, before it gets implemented. > -----Original Message----- > From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf > Of Tom Russo > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:18 PM > To: TAPR APRS Mailing List > Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 05:05:25PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron > collision of the flavor, containing: > > > > [you might want to adjust your mail program to send only plain text email to > APRSSIG --- those of us using old-fashioned text mail programs get to see > all the HTML markup, which I've hand-edited out in my reply] > > >While there I hope you can monitor the APRS traffic around the city. >  When I drive in to Albuquerque, I start hearing "MY POS" repeats > sometimes three or four times each time I beacon.  I have heard it as > much as 7 times!  I am running WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the mobile.  I > have my suspicions as to what is happening, but I don't have the expertise > to analyze the situation and make recommendations.  I'd love to hear > your take on it, if you see the same behavior. > > That's because all the nearby digis are ancient KPC-3 TNCs with old > firmware, > with broken handling of WIDEn-N: they fail to mark the final hop as used, > so if WIDEn-N were implemented normally the path you are using would only > be a one-hop path: > > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat: LAMOSC*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(2): SANDIA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(3): CAPILA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(4): ELKMTN*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > (etc. for every digi that happens to hear you) > End of line, because nobody will digipeat this (WIDE1 is showing as the > first unused digi, and nobody will do anything with that). > > SO, the work-around is that all of these digis have a workaround in place: > MYALIAS is set to WIDE1-1, with all the problems that go with it --- > notably, > no dupe checking on the first hop. So you get THIS mess instead: > > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > First hop: LAMOSC*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(2): SANDIA*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(3): CAPILA*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(4): ELKMTN*,,WIDE2-1 > and then > Second hop: LAMOSC*,SANDIA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: LAMOSC*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: LAMOSC*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,LAMOSC*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > and so on and so on. > > > That is, if you use WIDE1-1 you're no better than the Bad Old Days of > RELAY,WIDE, thanks to outdated hardware with outdated firmware. > > The KPC-3's are all donated hardware from WA5IHL who used to maintain a > large > number of normal packet nodes with them, and repurposed them in the early > days of APRS. It is not reasonable to expect that they'll all be replaced > in any sort of short order with more modern hardware/firmware, so we're > stuck > with the local advice NOT to use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the central New Mexico > area --- just use WIDE2-2 so that all dupe checking is actually done > properly. > With WIDE2-2, no ping-ponging is possible, you get fewer "MY POS" beeps > on your D7X0, and the channel gets less congestion. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey From bruninga at usna.edu Wed Aug 31 14:25:23 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:25:23 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: <040301cc680b$58f9b2f0$0aed18d0$@edu> >> The recommendation to use W2-2... > Please don't beacon "Use W2-2"... People will enter > exactly that on non-Kenwood rigs or S/W and create a mess. > Spell it out: Beacon "Use WIDE2-2" for those areas. I understand your point, but I think there are several points that should mitigate any problems: 1) The goal here is Standardization (see #2) 2) Which then fully embraces EDUCATION (See #1) 3) We already use "W2" as the code to tell users to use 2 hops in the area 4) We had used "W2, SSn-N. ..." to fit in the 10 byte radio line display 5) The new "W2-2 SSn-N..." still fits in the 10 byte window. 6) If a user puts in exactly "W2-2" as a path then his packets go now where and so he is only a QRM source to his surrounding vew miles and eventually he will learn it does not work. And finally, this can be used as a good time to get out and get ALL the digis updated and then an initiative to EDUCATE. By the way, in those areas where W1-1 is not receomended due to the KPC3 8.2 DUPE problem this does not preclude putting up a local fill-in digi using any-ol' TNC and simply setting its alias to "WIDE2-2". It will at least provide local coverage in its own footprint to passing W2-2 mobiles (though the packet will go no further). I hope that calms your fears? Bob, Wb4APR From curt.we7u at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 14:39:04 2011 From: curt.we7u at gmail.com (Curt, WE7U) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 11:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <040301cc680b$58f9b2f0$0aed18d0$@edu> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <040301cc680b$58f9b2f0$0aed18d0$@edu> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Aug 2011, Bob Bruninga wrote: > I hope that calms your fears? I'm pretty calm anyway, hi hi. It sounds like it's Tom's area that has this issue, and we don't have that issue in the Seattle area, so I'll let he and his cohorts worry about it. I personally would consider sending out more than one bulletin if it didn't all fit in one, just to avoid confusing the newbies. It's the newbies that would suffer the most, as their packets wouldn't get out, they wouldn't know why, and they might give up on the whole thing as a result. -- Curt, WE7U. http://www.eskimo.com/~archer Babysitting your tracker: http://info.aprs.net/index.php?title=ControlOperator From tim.n9puz at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 14:47:03 2011 From: tim.n9puz at gmail.com (Tim N9PUZ) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:47:03 -0500 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <040301cc680b$58f9b2f0$0aed18d0$@edu> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <040301cc680b$58f9b2f0$0aed18d0$@edu> Message-ID: <4E5E81A7.3040804@gmail.com> When this all gets finalized PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE put a date on the document and start out with something to the effect of "These are the recommended settings to be used from forward." One of the worst things about APRS is all the versions of information you find on the Internet that give you no clue as to when they were written. Tim N9PUZ On 8/31/2011 1:25 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote: >>> The recommendation to use W2-2... > >> Please don't beacon "Use W2-2"... People will enter >> exactly that on non-Kenwood rigs or S/W and create a mess. >> Spell it out: Beacon "Use WIDE2-2" for those areas. > > I understand your point, but I think there are several points that should > mitigate any problems: > > 1) The goal here is Standardization (see #2) > 2) Which then fully embraces EDUCATION (See #1) > 3) We already use "W2" as the code to tell users to use 2 hops in the area > 4) We had used "W2, SSn-N. ..." to fit in the 10 byte radio line display > 5) The new "W2-2 SSn-N..." still fits in the 10 byte window. > 6) If a user puts in exactly "W2-2" as a path then his packets go now where > and so he is only a QRM source to his surrounding vew miles and eventually > he will learn it does not work. > > And finally, this can be used as a good time to get out and get ALL the > digis updated and then an initiative to EDUCATE. > > By the way, in those areas where W1-1 is not receomended due to the KPC3 8.2 > DUPE problem this does not preclude putting up a local fill-in digi using > any-ol' TNC and simply setting its alias to "WIDE2-2". It will at least > provide local coverage in its own footprint to passing W2-2 mobiles (though > the packet will go no further). > > I hope that calms your fears? > Bob, Wb4APR > > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Wed Aug 31 14:50:26 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:50:26 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> Message-ID: <4E5E8272.1080908@aol.com> On 8/31/2011 1:10 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote: > Tom, > > EXCELLENT explanation! > > Now would this problem go away if people used the WIDE2-2 path in that area > instead of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1?? I think so, because then the DUPE filter would > work on the 2nd hop? > > If this fixes it, then our goal would be to get ALL such OLD KPC-3's to have > a BEACON that says something like: "Use W2-2." Especiall in an area whre > most of the TNC's have this problem? > > Bob, Wb4APR > > This is exactly what the beacons say on all the Los Angeles-area digi beacons: " "WIDE2-2 Is Best Path in SoCal". Here the issue is discouraging WIDE1-1 fill-ins on the ground, since the 5,000-7,000-foot-high mountain tops can be hit directly from pretty much anywhere in greater Los Angeles area in a single hop. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths From dave at g8kbv.demon.co.uk Wed Aug 31 14:53:01 2011 From: dave at g8kbv.demon.co.uk (Dave) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:53:01 +0100 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: References: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com>, <00cf01cc65b5$d6194cd0$824be670$@net>, Message-ID: <4E5E830D.28022.4C4BB04@dave.g8kbv.demon.co.uk> > The old serial eTrex units will show waypoints from the radio. My > first generation Garmin MAP60C works fine as well, as do many others. > > -Jason > kg4wsv Hi. The original Yellow eTrex (basic) wont! I have tried, from a D7. Not a lot of point either, the screen is too small and limited. As a source of RS232 GPS data, they are great though. 73. Dave G0WBX. From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Wed Aug 31 14:56:06 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:56:06 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <4E5E8272.1080908@aol.com> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <4E5E8272.1080908@aol.com> Message-ID: <4E5E83C6.4050209@aol.com> On 8/31/2011 2:50 PM, Stephen H. Smith wrote: > On 8/31/2011 1:10 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote: >> Tom, >> >> EXCELLENT explanation! >> >> Now would this problem go away if people used the WIDE2-2 path in that area >> instead of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1?? I think so, because then the DUPE filter would >> work on the 2nd hop? >> >> If this fixes it, then our goal would be to get ALL such OLD KPC-3's to have >> a BEACON that says something like: "Use W2-2." Especiall in an area whre >> most of the TNC's have this problem? >> >> Bob, Wb4APR >> >> > > > This is exactly what the beacons say on all the Los Angeles-area digi > beacons: " "WIDE2-2 Is Best Path in SoCal". > > Here the issue is discouraging WIDE1-1 fill-ins on the ground, since the > 5,000-7,000-foot-high mountain tops can be hit directly from pretty much > anywhere in greater Los Angeles area in a single hop. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > [I forgot to add:] Of course this falls on deaf ears for the majority of users with transmit-only trackers (who probably wouldn't be able to change paths even if they could hear). On the other hand, if you could get the daily driver locals to change path settings, the occasional transient wouldn't be much of a problem. One could use WIDE2-2 in the main setting and WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the alternate setting of TinyTracks and their derivatives. From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Wed Aug 31 15:07:42 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:07:42 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <4E5E830D.28022.4C4BB04@dave.g8kbv.demon.co.uk> References: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com>, <00cf01cc65b5$d6194cd0$824be670$@net>, <4E5E830D.28022.4C4BB04@dave.g8kbv.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <4E5E867E.5050907@aol.com> On 8/31/2011 2:53 PM, Dave wrote: > Hi. > > The original Yellow eTrex (basic) wont! I have tried, from a D7. Not a > lot of point either, the screen is too small and limited. > > As a source of RS232 GPS data, they are great though. > > 73. > > Dave G0WBX. > > _ Interesting... I have a Garmin ForeTrex 201 wrist-wearable GPS (which I believe has identical firmware to the yellow eTrex) and it DOES plot from my TH-D7A(g). Pics of it in action here: . Review of the ForeTrex 201 here: . Is there possibly some difference in the Euro version of the TH-D7 that prevents this from working? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -- Stephen H. Smith wa8lmf (at) aol.com === Now relocated from Pasadena, CA back to 8-land (East Lansing, MI) === Skype: WA8LMF Home Page: http://wa8lmf.net ===== Vista & Win7 Install Issues for UI-View and Precision Mapping ===== http://wa8lmf.net/aprs/UIview_Notes.htm#VistaWin7 *** HF APRS over PSK63 *** http://wa8lmf.net/APRS_PSK63/index.htm "APRS 101" Explanation of APRS Path Selection & Digipeating http://wa8lmf.net/DigiPaths From ws5n at wildblue.net Wed Aug 31 15:08:25 2011 From: ws5n at wildblue.net (J. Gary Bender, WS5N) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:08:25 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: <201183113825.913146@MGLLC> Thanks Tom. Excellent explanation. I will switch to Wide2-2 for normal ops around NM. I doubt that I ever hit a true Wide1-1 fill-in anyway. -- 73 -- J. Gary Bender, WS5N Fence Lake, New Mexico USA On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:18:07 -0600, Tom Russo wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 05:05:25PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: >> > [you might want to adjust your mail program to send only plain text email to > APRSSIG --- those of us using old-fashioned text mail programs get to see > all the HTML markup, which I've hand-edited out in my reply] >>While there I hope you can monitor the APRS traffic around the city. When I drive in to Albuquerque, I start hearing "MY POS" repeats sometimes three or four times each time I beacon. I have heard it as much as 7 times! I am running WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the mobile. I have my suspicions as to what is happening, but I don't have the expertise to analyze the situation and make recommendations. I'd love to hear your take on it, if you see the same behavior. > That's because all the nearby digis are ancient KPC-3 TNCs with old firmware, > with broken handling of WIDEn-N: they fail to mark the final hop as used, > so if WIDEn-N were implemented normally the path you are using would only > be a one-hop path: > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat: LAMOSC*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(2): SANDIA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(3): CAPILA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(4): ELKMTN*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > (etc. for every digi that happens to hear you) > End of line, because nobody will digipeat this (WIDE1 is showing as the > first unused digi, and nobody will do anything with that). > SO, the work-around is that all of these digis have a workaround in place: > MYALIAS is set to WIDE1-1, with all the problems that go with it --- notably, > no dupe checking on the first hop. So you get THIS mess instead: > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > First hop: LAMOSC*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(2): SANDIA*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(3): CAPILA*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(4): ELKMTN*,,WIDE2-1 > and then > Second hop: LAMOSC*,SANDIA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: LAMOSC*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: LAMOSC*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,LAMOSC*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > and so on and so on. > That is, if you use WIDE1-1 you're no better than the Bad Old Days of > RELAY,WIDE, thanks to outdated hardware with outdated firmware. > The KPC-3's are all donated hardware from WA5IHL who used to maintain a large > number of normal packet nodes with them, and repurposed them in the early > days of APRS. It is not reasonable to expect that they'll all be replaced > in any sort of short order with more modern hardware/firmware, so we're stuck > with the local advice NOT to use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the central New Mexico > area --- just use WIDE2-2 so that all dupe checking is actually done properly. > With WIDE2-2, no ping-ponging is possible, you get fewer "MY POS" beeps > on your D7X0, and the channel gets less congestion. From earl.kd5xb at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 15:18:44 2011 From: earl.kd5xb at gmail.com (Earl Needham) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:18:44 +0000 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <201183113825.913146@MGLLC> References: <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org><201183113825.913146@MGLLC> Message-ID: <1199308718-1314818325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-721275230-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> Me, too. I had been thinking WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 was "the gold standard", but when going through Albuquerque I sure heard a lot of dupes! I've already changed my HamHUD to WIDE2-2 and we'll see how it goes. Vy 7 3 Earl KD5XB-11 KD5XB -- Earl Needham http://groups.yahoo.com/group/cw_bugs Quoting from the Coast Guard: ZUT Posted via Blackberry -----Original Message----- From: "J. Gary Bender, WS5N" Sender: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:08:25 To: ; TAPR APRS Mailing List Reply-To: TAPR APRS Mailing List Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? Thanks Tom. Excellent explanation. I will switch to Wide2-2 for normal ops around NM. I doubt that I ever hit a true Wide1-1 fill-in anyway. -- 73 -- J. Gary Bender, WS5N Fence Lake, New Mexico USA On Tue, 30 Aug 2011 18:18:07 -0600, Tom Russo wrote: > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 05:05:25PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: >> > [you might want to adjust your mail program to send only plain text email to > APRSSIG --- those of us using old-fashioned text mail programs get to see > all the HTML markup, which I've hand-edited out in my reply] >>While there I hope you can monitor the APRS traffic around the city. When I drive in to Albuquerque, I start hearing "MY POS" repeats sometimes three or four times each time I beacon. I have heard it as much as 7 times! I am running WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the mobile. I have my suspicions as to what is happening, but I don't have the expertise to analyze the situation and make recommendations. I'd love to hear your take on it, if you see the same behavior. > That's because all the nearby digis are ancient KPC-3 TNCs with old firmware, > with broken handling of WIDEn-N: they fail to mark the final hop as used, > so if WIDEn-N were implemented normally the path you are using would only > be a one-hop path: > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat: LAMOSC*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(2): SANDIA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(3): CAPILA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > First digipeat(4): ELKMTN*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > (etc. for every digi that happens to hear you) > End of line, because nobody will digipeat this (WIDE1 is showing as the > first unused digi, and nobody will do anything with that). > SO, the work-around is that all of these digis have a workaround in place: > MYALIAS is set to WIDE1-1, with all the problems that go with it --- notably, > no dupe checking on the first hop. So you get THIS mess instead: > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > First hop: LAMOSC*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(2): SANDIA*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(3): CAPILA*,WIDE2-1 > First hop(4): ELKMTN*,,WIDE2-1 > and then > Second hop: LAMOSC*,SANDIA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: LAMOSC*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: LAMOSC*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,LAMOSC*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > Second hop: SANDIA*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > and so on and so on. > That is, if you use WIDE1-1 you're no better than the Bad Old Days of > RELAY,WIDE, thanks to outdated hardware with outdated firmware. > The KPC-3's are all donated hardware from WA5IHL who used to maintain a large > number of normal packet nodes with them, and repurposed them in the early > days of APRS. It is not reasonable to expect that they'll all be replaced > in any sort of short order with more modern hardware/firmware, so we're stuck > with the local advice NOT to use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the central New Mexico > area --- just use WIDE2-2 so that all dupe checking is actually done properly. > With WIDE2-2, no ping-ponging is possible, you get fewer "MY POS" beeps > on your D7X0, and the channel gets less congestion. _______________________________________________ aprssig mailing list aprssig at tapr.org https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From russo at bogodyn.org Wed Aug 31 15:39:57 2011 From: russo at bogodyn.org (Tom Russo) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:39:57 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] advice on purchesing GPS for use with D-710 In-Reply-To: <4E5E830D.28022.4C4BB04@dave.g8kbv.demon.co.uk> References: <8CE33CC71E9B5BD-1158-370C8@webmail-d138.sysops.aol.com> <00cf01cc65b5$d6194cd0$824be670$@net> <4E5E830D.28022.4C4BB04@dave.g8kbv.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <20110831193957.GA79387@bogodyn.org> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 07:53:01PM +0100, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > > The old serial eTrex units will show waypoints from the radio. My > > first generation Garmin MAP60C works fine as well, as do many others. > > > > -Jason > > kg4wsv > > Hi. > > The original Yellow eTrex (basic) wont! I have tried, from a D7. Not a > lot of point either, the screen is too small and limited. Yes, the original yellow etrex (of around 1998-2000 vintage) had insufficient room in its eeprom for code to handle NMEA in. There's no firmware upgrade that enables it. Later versions of the etrex have NMEA in/out, but the first one released didn't. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey From cap at cruzio.com Wed Aug 31 15:44:02 2011 From: cap at cruzio.com (Cap Pennell) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:44:02 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! In-Reply-To: <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> Message-ID: <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> Still better, I think, for old digipeater Sysops to just add UIDigi WIDE1-1 in the Kantronics version KPC3-3F427265-8.2 TNC as previously recommended. http://www.aprs.org/kpc3/kpc3+82WIDEn.txt In practice, this certainly works well enough. In California, we build our fixed VHF digi network to support a user's path of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 (or less) from anywhere. A digi that won't operate packets addressed via WIDE1-1 isn't of much use. 73, Cap KE6AFE > -----Original Message----- > From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of > Bob Bruninga > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:55 AM > To: russo at bogodyn.org > Cc: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' > Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! > > > Yes, it would. > > What format and means do you suggest? > > This is the best news since 2004 New-N Paradigm! > > * In 2004 we standardized APRS on WIDEn-N (including W1-1,W2-1) > * In 2005 We standardized Digi localinfo Beacons to include > - Digi info format (W2, SSn-n.) (or W3, etc) > - Local Freq Objects for Voice, IRLP and Echolink, etc > * Now, in 2011 we solve the old KPC-3 problem! > > Instead of the "W2, SSn-N..." format for the digibeacon, we now suggest for > these old KPC-3's to use a new format "W2-2 SSn-N...". Where the "W2-2" is > the Key to mean "Do not use W1-1 in this area. Use only W2-2 (or W3-3 if > ok). If every old KPC-3 with the dupe problem used this standard beacon, > then we can now educate people that when they see that specific "Wx-X..." > nomenclature that it means to only use that path because that digi is a > duping KPC-3. SO basically we are changing the "W2" to a "W2-2" as a subtle > but standardized way to convey this info to users (or W3-3 in some areas). > > Remember, under the 2005 http://aprs.org/localinfo.html recommendations, > what comes out of a digi to its immediate users are: > > 1) The digi beacon every 10 minutes DIRECT > 2) The digi beacon every 60 minutes via 2 hops *(see below) > 3) Local FREQ object(a) every 10m direct > 4) Local FREQ object(b) every 10m direct > 5) Local Freq object(c) every 10m direct > > Problem is that my guess is fewer than 1 in 3 digis ever even upgraded to > the 2005 Local-Info initiative (beacons 3,4,5 above). But this is a good > time to do all of that. > > Would that work? > > The goal everywhere is that if your radio has been on for 10 minutes, your > APRS radio should capture all the local info of value, the DIGI, Voice, > Echolink and IRLP or other info. > > NOTE: I think there should be two options for the DX beacon (#2 above). As > shown, it is for large sparse networks like New Mexico or something where > you want to see the overall network of digis (few people out there). But > for dense areas like back-east, I think making the DX beacon every 30 > minutes is no more total packets but then at least every 30 minutes lets you > see the next digi beyond the one you are currently in. > > Back east, waiting an hour for that info is too long to wait. > > Bob, Wb4APR > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Russo [mailto:russo at bogodyn.org] > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 1:17 PM > To: Bob Bruninga > Cc: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' > Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 01:10:21PM -0400, we recorded a bogon-computron > collision of the flavor, containing: > > Tom, > > > > EXCELLENT explanation! > > > > Now would this problem go away if people used the WIDE2-2 path in that > area > > instead of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1?? I think so, because then the DUPE filter > would > > work on the 2nd hop? > > Yes, it would. > > > If this fixes it, then our goal would be to get ALL such OLD KPC-3's to > have > > a BEACON that says something like: "Use W2-2." Especiall in an area whre > > most of the TNC's have this problem? > > The recommendation to use W2-2 is in fact on the web page of the club that > maintains the digis (www.urfmsi.org). I agree that it would be a good idea > for those digis to have some kind of standard beacon that would be > easily recognized by users. What format and means do you suggest? I could > possibly pass it on to the fellow who maintains the digis. It might be some > time, though, before it gets implemented. > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf > > Of Tom Russo > > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:18 PM > > To: TAPR APRS Mailing List > > Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? > > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 05:05:25PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron > > collision of the flavor, containing: > > > > > > > [you might want to adjust your mail program to send only plain text email > to > > APRSSIG --- those of us using old-fashioned text mail programs get to see > > all the HTML markup, which I've hand-edited out in my reply] > > > > >While there I hope you can monitor the APRS traffic around the city. > >  When I drive in to Albuquerque, I start hearing "MY POS" repeats > > sometimes three or four times each time I beacon.  I have heard it as > > much as 7 times!  I am running WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the mobile.  I > > have my suspicions as to what is happening, but I don't have the expertise > > to analyze the situation and make recommendations.  I'd love to hear > > your take on it, if you see the same behavior. > > > > That's because all the nearby digis are ancient KPC-3 TNCs with old > > firmware, > > with broken handling of WIDEn-N: they fail to mark the final hop as used, > > so if WIDEn-N were implemented normally the path you are using would only > > be a one-hop path: > > > > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > > First digipeat: LAMOSC*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > > First digipeat(2): SANDIA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > > First digipeat(3): CAPILA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > > First digipeat(4): ELKMTN*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > > (etc. for every digi that happens to hear you) > > End of line, because nobody will digipeat this (WIDE1 is showing as the > > first unused digi, and nobody will do anything with that). > > > > SO, the work-around is that all of these digis have a workaround in place: > > MYALIAS is set to WIDE1-1, with all the problems that go with it --- > > notably, > > no dupe checking on the first hop. So you get THIS mess instead: > > > > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > > First hop: LAMOSC*,WIDE2-1 > > First hop(2): SANDIA*,WIDE2-1 > > First hop(3): CAPILA*,WIDE2-1 > > First hop(4): ELKMTN*,,WIDE2-1 > > and then > > Second hop: LAMOSC*,SANDIA*,WIDE2 > > Second hop: LAMOSC*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > > Second hop: LAMOSC*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > > Second hop: SANDIA*,LAMOSC*,WIDE2 > > Second hop: SANDIA*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > > Second hop: SANDIA*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > > and so on and so on. > > > > > > That is, if you use WIDE1-1 you're no better than the Bad Old Days of > > RELAY,WIDE, thanks to outdated hardware with outdated firmware. > > > > The KPC-3's are all donated hardware from WA5IHL who used to maintain a > > large > > number of normal packet nodes with them, and repurposed them in the early > > days of APRS. It is not reasonable to expect that they'll all be replaced > > in any sort of short order with more modern hardware/firmware, so we're > > stuck > > with the local advice NOT to use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the central New Mexico > > area --- just use WIDE2-2 so that all dupe checking is actually done > > properly. > > With WIDE2-2, no ping-ponging is possible, you get fewer "MY POS" beeps > > on your D7X0, and the channel gets less congestion. > > -- > Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ > Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 > http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM > "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide > stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey > > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig From w0jrt at yahoo.com Wed Aug 31 15:45:54 2011 From: w0jrt at yahoo.com (J T) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:45:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Access to info.aprs.net wiki Message-ID: <1314819954.34393.YahooMailClassic@web160905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> I'd like to make some contributions to the wiki at info.aprs.net but it isn't letting me create an account.? If I click on the "Log in / create account" link in the corner it takes me to a page that only lets me log in or recover a password, but not register.? I've e-mailed one of the sysops a few days ago but haven't received a response. Does anyone here know the owners of that site and could perhaps poke them to see if the registration thing could be fixed? -Jerome, W0JRT -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wa8lmf2 at aol.com Wed Aug 31 15:47:30 2011 From: wa8lmf2 at aol.com (Stephen H. Smith) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:47:30 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! In-Reply-To: <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> Message-ID: <4E5E8FD2.9030307@aol.com> On 8/31/2011 3:44 PM, Cap Pennell wrote: > Still better, I think, for old digipeater Sysops to just add UIDigi WIDE1-1 > in the Kantronics version KPC3-3F427265-8.2 TNC as previously recommended. > http://www.aprs.org/kpc3/kpc3+82WIDEn.txt > In practice, this certainly works well enough. > In California, we build our fixed VHF digi network to support a user's path > of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 (or less) from anywhere. A digi that won't operate > packets addressed via WIDE1-1 isn't of much use. > 73, Cap KE6AFE > Correction: "In *NORTHERN* California, we build our fixed VHF digi network to support a user's path of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 (or less) from anywhere." SoCal ignores WIDE1-1 From russo at bogodyn.org Wed Aug 31 15:48:27 2011 From: russo at bogodyn.org (Tom Russo) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:48:27 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! In-Reply-To: <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> Message-ID: <20110831194827.GA79580@bogodyn.org> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 12:44:02PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > Still better, I think, for old digipeater Sysops to just add UIDigi WIDE1-1 > in the Kantronics version KPC3-3F427265-8.2 TNC as previously recommended. > http://www.aprs.org/kpc3/kpc3+82WIDEn.txt > In practice, this certainly works well enough. My bad. It's the UIDIGI, not MYALIAS that these KPC-3's in NM use as WIDE1-1. The ping-ponging issue, however, is still the problem that shows up, because UIDIGI doesn't do dupe checking. Dupe checking only happens with UITRACE and UIFLOOD, and these models of KPC-3 have busted firmware that do the wrong thing with WIDE1-1 when caught by those parameters instead of UIDIGI. > > -----Original Message----- > > From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf > Of > > Bob Bruninga > > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 10:55 AM > > To: russo at bogodyn.org > > Cc: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' > > Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! > > > > > Yes, it would. > > > What format and means do you suggest? > > > > This is the best news since 2004 New-N Paradigm! > > > > * In 2004 we standardized APRS on WIDEn-N (including W1-1,W2-1) > > * In 2005 We standardized Digi localinfo Beacons to include > > - Digi info format (W2, SSn-n.) (or W3, etc) > > - Local Freq Objects for Voice, IRLP and Echolink, etc > > * Now, in 2011 we solve the old KPC-3 problem! > > > > Instead of the "W2, SSn-N..." format for the digibeacon, we now suggest > for > > these old KPC-3's to use a new format "W2-2 SSn-N...". Where the "W2-2" > is > > the Key to mean "Do not use W1-1 in this area. Use only W2-2 (or W3-3 if > > ok). If every old KPC-3 with the dupe problem used this standard beacon, > > then we can now educate people that when they see that specific "Wx-X..." > > nomenclature that it means to only use that path because that digi is a > > duping KPC-3. SO basically we are changing the "W2" to a "W2-2" as a > subtle > > but standardized way to convey this info to users (or W3-3 in some areas). > > > > Remember, under the 2005 http://aprs.org/localinfo.html recommendations, > > what comes out of a digi to its immediate users are: > > > > 1) The digi beacon every 10 minutes DIRECT > > 2) The digi beacon every 60 minutes via 2 hops *(see below) > > 3) Local FREQ object(a) every 10m direct > > 4) Local FREQ object(b) every 10m direct > > 5) Local Freq object(c) every 10m direct > > > > Problem is that my guess is fewer than 1 in 3 digis ever even upgraded to > > the 2005 Local-Info initiative (beacons 3,4,5 above). But this is a good > > time to do all of that. > > > > Would that work? > > > > The goal everywhere is that if your radio has been on for 10 minutes, your > > APRS radio should capture all the local info of value, the DIGI, Voice, > > Echolink and IRLP or other info. > > > > NOTE: I think there should be two options for the DX beacon (#2 above). > As > > shown, it is for large sparse networks like New Mexico or something where > > you want to see the overall network of digis (few people out there). But > > for dense areas like back-east, I think making the DX beacon every 30 > > minutes is no more total packets but then at least every 30 minutes lets > you > > see the next digi beyond the one you are currently in. > > > > Back east, waiting an hour for that info is too long to wait. > > > > Bob, Wb4APR > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tom Russo [mailto:russo at bogodyn.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2011 1:17 PM > > To: Bob Bruninga > > Cc: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List' > > Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? > > > > On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 01:10:21PM -0400, we recorded a bogon-computron > > collision of the flavor, containing: > > > Tom, > > > > > > EXCELLENT explanation! > > > > > > Now would this problem go away if people used the WIDE2-2 path in that > > area > > > instead of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1?? I think so, because then the DUPE filter > > would > > > work on the 2nd hop? > > > > Yes, it would. > > > > > If this fixes it, then our goal would be to get ALL such OLD KPC-3's to > > have > > > a BEACON that says something like: "Use W2-2." Especiall in an area > whre > > > most of the TNC's have this problem? > > > > The recommendation to use W2-2 is in fact on the web page of the club that > > maintains the digis (www.urfmsi.org). I agree that it would be a good > idea > > for those digis to have some kind of standard beacon that would be > > easily recognized by users. What format and means do you suggest? I > could > > possibly pass it on to the fellow who maintains the digis. It might be > some > > time, though, before it gets implemented. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On > Behalf > > > Of Tom Russo > > > Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 8:18 PM > > > To: TAPR APRS Mailing List > > > Subject: Re: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 30, 2011 at 05:05:25PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron > > > collision of the flavor, containing: > > > > > > > > > > [you might want to adjust your mail program to send only plain text > email > > to > > > APRSSIG --- those of us using old-fashioned text mail programs get to > see > > > all the HTML markup, which I've hand-edited out in my reply] > > > > > > >While there I hope you can monitor the APRS traffic around the city. > > >  When I drive in to Albuquerque, I start hearing "MY POS" repeats > > > sometimes three or four times each time I beacon.  I have heard it > as > > > much as 7 times!  I am running WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the mobile. >  I > > > have my suspicions as to what is happening, but I don't have the > expertise > > > to analyze the situation and make recommendations.  I'd love to > hear > > > your take on it, if you see the same behavior. > > > > > > That's because all the nearby digis are ancient KPC-3 TNCs with old > > > firmware, > > > with broken handling of WIDEn-N: they fail to mark the final hop as > used, > > > so if WIDEn-N were implemented normally the path you are using would > only > > > be a one-hop path: > > > > > > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > > > First digipeat: LAMOSC*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > > > First digipeat(2): SANDIA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > > > First digipeat(3): CAPILA*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > > > First digipeat(4): ELKMTN*,WIDE1,WIDE2-1 > > > (etc. for every digi that happens to hear you) > > > End of line, because nobody will digipeat this (WIDE1 is showing as > the > > > first unused digi, and nobody will do anything with that). > > > > > > SO, the work-around is that all of these digis have a workaround in > place: > > > MYALIAS is set to WIDE1-1, with all the problems that go with it --- > > > notably, > > > no dupe checking on the first hop. So you get THIS mess instead: > > > > > > first transmit: WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > > > First hop: LAMOSC*,WIDE2-1 > > > First hop(2): SANDIA*,WIDE2-1 > > > First hop(3): CAPILA*,WIDE2-1 > > > First hop(4): ELKMTN*,,WIDE2-1 > > > and then > > > Second hop: LAMOSC*,SANDIA*,WIDE2 > > > Second hop: LAMOSC*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > > > Second hop: LAMOSC*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > > > Second hop: SANDIA*,LAMOSC*,WIDE2 > > > Second hop: SANDIA*,CAPILA*,WIDE2 > > > Second hop: SANDIA*,ELKMTN*,WIDE2 > > > and so on and so on. > > > > > > > > > That is, if you use WIDE1-1 you're no better than the Bad Old Days of > > > RELAY,WIDE, thanks to outdated hardware with outdated firmware. > > > > > > The KPC-3's are all donated hardware from WA5IHL who used to maintain a > > > large > > > number of normal packet nodes with them, and repurposed them in the > early > > > days of APRS. It is not reasonable to expect that they'll all be > replaced > > > in any sort of short order with more modern hardware/firmware, so we're > > > stuck > > > with the local advice NOT to use WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 in the central New > Mexico > > > area --- just use WIDE2-2 so that all dupe checking is actually done > > > properly. > > > With WIDE2-2, no ping-ponging is possible, you get fewer "MY POS" beeps > > > on your D7X0, and the channel gets less congestion. > > > > -- > > Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ > > Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 > > http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM > > "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide > > stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > aprssig mailing list > > aprssig at tapr.org > > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey From russo at bogodyn.org Wed Aug 31 15:53:59 2011 From: russo at bogodyn.org (Tom Russo) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:53:59 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] Access to info.aprs.net wiki In-Reply-To: <1314819954.34393.YahooMailClassic@web160905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314819954.34393.YahooMailClassic@web160905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20110831195359.GA79625@bogodyn.org> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 12:45:54PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > I'd like to make some contributions to the wiki at info.aprs.net but it isn't letting me create an account.? If I click on the "Log in / create account" link in the corner it takes me to a page that only lets me log in or recover a password, but not register.? I've e-mailed one of the sysops a few days ago but haven't received a response. > > Does anyone here know the owners of that site and could perhaps poke them to see if the registration thing could be fixed? Speak to Scott Miller. The problem is that the wiki is running very old version of mediawiki that doesn't support some important spam-control measures, and these were getting exploited several times a day for months --- the wiki was a polluted mess only a few months ago. Spam scripts were creating accounts and spamming like mad, and there was no mediawiki plugin to prevent that that was compatible with the old version of mediawiki. As a stop-gap measure, Scott disallowed new registration until he had the time to upgrade the wiki software to one that supported finer-grained control over the registration process. Scott can still create an individual account himself, but might be too busy to service that sort of thing. I'm one of the sysops, but I have no access to the server itself --- I can only do sysop tasks that can be done through the mediawiki interface (like clean out spam, which I spent weeks doing). I don't think creating user accounts is one of those. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey From curt.we7u at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 15:54:29 2011 From: curt.we7u at gmail.com (Curt, WE7U) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 12:54:29 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Access to info.aprs.net wiki In-Reply-To: <1314819954.34393.YahooMailClassic@web160905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> References: <1314819954.34393.YahooMailClassic@web160905.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Aug 2011, J T wrote: > I'd like to make some contributions to the wiki at info.aprs.net but it isn't letting me create an account.? If I click on the "Log in / create account" link in the corner it takes me to a page that only lets me log in or recover a password, but not register.? I've e-mailed one of the sysops a few days ago but haven't received a response. > > Does anyone here know the owners of that site and could perhaps poke them to see if the registration thing could be fixed? Scott Miller, the OpenTracker guy (ArgentData). -- Curt, WE7U. http://www.eskimo.com/~archer APRS: Where it's at! http://www.xastir.org From russo at bogodyn.org Wed Aug 31 16:08:41 2011 From: russo at bogodyn.org (Tom Russo) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 14:08:41 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! In-Reply-To: <20110831194827.GA79580@bogodyn.org> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> <20110831194827.GA79580@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: <20110831200841.GB79625@bogodyn.org> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 01:48:27PM -0600, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 12:44:02PM -0700, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > > Still better, I think, for old digipeater Sysops to just add UIDigi WIDE1-1 > > in the Kantronics version KPC3-3F427265-8.2 TNC as previously recommended. > > http://www.aprs.org/kpc3/kpc3+82WIDEn.txt > > In practice, this certainly works well enough. > > My bad. It's the UIDIGI, not MYALIAS that these KPC-3's in NM use as WIDE1-1. > The ping-ponging issue, however, is still the problem that shows up, because > UIDIGI doesn't do dupe checking. I should also point out that the *real* issue is that not only do we have these old TNCs that need this UIDIGI hack, but we also have very high elevation digis that provide redundant, overlapping coverage in the ABQ area. >From Albuquerque, it is not unusual for 4 digis to hear you direct (typically, SANDIA, LAMOSC, CAPILA and ELKMTN), and sometimes more (adding RAVEN, CEDRO, EUREKA and TESQUE) on a good (bad) day. These digis are all high enough that they can all hear each other, and without dupe checking the cacophonic response to a single packet is awe-inspiring. This is because when APRS first hit NM, there was a very positive response from folks who had high elevation repeater sites and existing, wasted packet infrastructure in place. Suddenly we had a vast network of APRS digis and a philosophy that "more is better" and "there is no such thing as 'too tall'." The excessive overlapping coverage is unfortunate, but it is what we have and is unlikely to be changed. You should hear it when someone with a SmartBeaconing rig with misconfigured corner-pegging/mintime settings drives through --- between WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 ping-ponging and transmits every 5-6 seconds (the misconfigured part of SmartBeaconing --- this is not a smartbeaconing slam, but a misconfiguration slam), the noise is impressive. Back in the old RELAY,WIDE days (or worse, the RELAY,WIDE,WIDE,WIDE days), listening to the channel was very enlightening. Very few people actually listen to the channel, and if more did and questioned why they were hearing what they were hearing, we'd all be better off. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey From kf4lvz at yahoo.com Wed Aug 31 16:15:32 2011 From: kf4lvz at yahoo.com (Alex Carver) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 13:15:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [aprssig] Clubs, FRS and Ham Response teams In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1314821732.36865.YahooMailClassic@web130113.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Steve Noskowicz wrote: > --- Bob Bruninga wrote: > > ... I have a stock FRS radio ...on the roof.? I feed > it 6 > > volts up and bring down speaker audio on a 4 conductor > phone > > line ...to my desk about 200' away. ... > > ... it can only be used with type-approved accessories > ... > > Bob, WB4APR > > > Cool idea, but ... Clearing throat with a little > vigor...? ? Unless a "standard type approved > accessory" is a 200' power and speaker extension cable, > you've stretched the rules beyond recognition by about 200' > ... (;-) He only extended the receiving side of the FRS radio which does not require type acceptance. The type acceptance only applies if he were to attempt to transmit from it. But, in the same email you quoted he already states that he transmits with an unmodified unit that he carries over to a window. If type acceptance were required for reception then none of us would be able to use modified radios, scanners, or anything other than a service-specific type-accepted radio to listen to other frequencies, right? :) From bruninga at usna.edu Wed Aug 31 17:00:24 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:00:24 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! (rev 1) In-Reply-To: <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> Message-ID: <043201cc6821$00f61b00$02e25100$@edu> > Still better, I think, for old digipeater Sysops > to just add UIDigi WIDE1-1 in the Kantronics version > KPC3-3F427265-8.2 TNC as previously recommended. > http://www.aprs.org/kpc3/kpc3+82WIDEn.txt > In practice, this certainly works well enough. Yes, for the rare 8.2 digi, but if you have more than one, or as in the case of New Mexico, if they are all that way, then it is a disaster. The Version 8.2 fix of putting WIDE1-1 in the UIDIGI Alias list fixes the one problem of the path being broken and going no further than one hop, but it does nothing to solve the lack of DUPE suppression. The above recommendation at least lets the TNC be used, though at the expense of multiple dupes if other verision 8.2's are around. Tom has made an excellent point, that the multiplication of dupes makes this 8.2 fix an exponential dupe problem in areas where many 8.2 KPC3's can hear the mobile. I wonder if other areas have noticed this? Anyway, the result of this revelation is to cause me to go back and REVISE the above recomemendation to INCLUDE the "use only WIDE2-2" (or WIDE3-3) in this area, (meaning WIDE1-1 is not supported). RECOMMENDATION TO NEW MEXICO? The goal is to RECEOMMEND to all New Mexico permanent users to avoid using WIDE1-1,WIDEn-N path. But to in the mean time, support the occasional visitor that drives into town with the above common path. How about this: 1) EDUCATE everyone permanently in New Mexico to use the WIDEn-N path only. 2) REMOVE UIDIGI WIDE1-1 in all Albuquerque digis that cover the metro area, 3) Change ALL New Mexico digis to "NoW1 NM5-5 comments..." * The result is that all the digi's with UIDIGI WIDE1-1 removed will digipeat the W1-1,W2-1 packet once and only once using the normal (but broken/truncating) WIDEn-N algorithm. But since this is a metro area everyone in Albuquerque will get it as well as the internet. So the visiting WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 mobile is heard (locally). * Distant selective digis in wilderness areas can still support WIDE1-1 as an alias because there are fewer mobiles out there, and hopefully they will hit fewer simultaneous digis? We don't want a visitor lost in the toolies to not be heard. * Wherever significant overlaps occur, try to make sure that no more than one digi supports the WIDE1-1 uidigi alias. * The "NoW1 NM5-5" recommendations inform all the locals (and visitors) of proper operations in that area. (I am assuming that NM5-5 anywhere in the state will hit all digis in the state(once and only once)..) Would that work? Notice, I have changed the recommended indicator to "NoW1..." as a better way to get the message across that WIDE1-1 is not supported (because of the 8.2 dupe problem). Bob, Wb4APR From bruninga at usna.edu Wed Aug 31 17:08:56 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:08:56 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <1199308718-1314818325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-721275230-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> References: <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org><201183113825.913146@MGLLC> <1199308718-1314818325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-721275230-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> Message-ID: <043301cc6822$32423bc0$96c6b340$@edu> > Me, too. I had been thinking WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 > was "the gold standard", but when going through > Albuquerque I sure heard a lot of dupes! I've > already changed my HamHUD to WIDE2-2 and we'll see how it goes. Actually, WIDE2-2 is shorter too! Send WIDE2-2 get: DIGI1,WIDE2-1 and then several DIGI1,DIGI2,WIDE2 Send W11,W21 get: DIGI1,WIDE1,DIGI2-1 and then several DIGI1,WIDE1,DIGI2,WIDE2 So the savings is significant. I think the overall value to the APRS network is to educate people to only use the WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path if they are in an area which has lots of WIDE1-1 fill in digis, or they live near one and it is the only way to get out. Bob, Wb4APR From bruninga at usna.edu Wed Aug 31 17:19:34 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:19:34 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <040301cc680b$58f9b2f0$0aed18d0$@edu> Message-ID: <043601cc6823$ae4da550$0ae8eff0$@edu> >> I hope that calms your fears? > I'm pretty calm anyway, hi hi. Your input was good... Now I think using "NoW1..." is a more direct approach to the problem than the passive "W2-2..." recommendation that most people would not pick up on.. And though cryptic, it still does fit on the first line of the 10 line format. Bob, Wb4APR From ldeffenb at homeside.to Wed Aug 31 17:19:48 2011 From: ldeffenb at homeside.to (Lynn W. Deffenbaugh (Mr)) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:19:48 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] APRS talk in Los Alamos? In-Reply-To: <043301cc6822$32423bc0$96c6b340$@edu> References: <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org><201183113825.913146@MGLLC> <1199308718-1314818325-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-721275230-@b15.c31.bise6.blackberry> <043301cc6822$32423bc0$96c6b340$@edu> Message-ID: <4E5EA574.3080501@homeside.to> On 8/31/2011 5:08 PM, Bob Bruninga wrote: > > I think the overall value to the APRS > network is to educate people to only use the WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 path if they > are in an area which has lots of WIDE1-1 fill in digis, or they live near > one and it is the only way to get out. Or for travellers that have no idea what the "standard-du-jour" is in the areas they may be traveling through? I thought that was the whole purpose behind the WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 mobile recommendation? Lynn (D) - KJ4ERJ - Trying to keep up > Bob, Wb4APR > > > > > _______________________________________________ > aprssig mailing list > aprssig at tapr.org > https://www.tapr.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/aprssig > From bruninga at usna.edu Wed Aug 31 17:50:46 2011 From: bruninga at usna.edu (Bob Bruninga) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 17:50:46 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! (docs) In-Reply-To: <4E5E8FD2.9030307@aol.com> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> <4E5E8FD2.9030307@aol.com> Message-ID: <043701cc6828$0a477ee0$1ed67ca0$@edu> I just updated the recommendations for 8.2 digs under the New-N paradigm. See if I got it right? http://aprs.org/kpc3/kpc3+82WIDEn.txt I boiled it down to this: 1) Put "NoW1 SSn-N ..." in the beacons 2) do either of the following: * Areas with an IGate, do nothing different. * Sparse areas, put WIDE1-1 in the UIDIGI Alias list. The result is that all mobiles are warned by the beacon that WIDE1-1 is not a good idea in this area because either: * you will get digipeated once only (but an IGate is nearby) * It will work, but you are generating excessive dupes. Hope that covers it? And remember, all the info on the New-N paradigm is on the page: http://aprs.org/fix14439.html Thanks Bob From cap at cruzio.com Wed Aug 31 18:14:46 2011 From: cap at cruzio.com (Cap Pennell) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 15:14:46 -0700 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! (rev 1) In-Reply-To: <043201cc6821$00f61b00$02e25100$@edu> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> <043201cc6821$00f61b00$02e25100$@edu> Message-ID: <00d501cc682b$67c24890$3746d9b0$@com> Bob wrote: > Tom has made an excellent point, that the multiplication of dupes makes this > 8.2 fix an exponential dupe problem in areas where many 8.2 KPC3's can hear > the mobile. I wonder if other areas have noticed this? Yes, but it's not a actual significant problem. I am probably one of only a very few hams whom has ever noticed this effect on VHF in California (where many of our digipeaters also are atop tall mountains), yet our VHF network survives somehow. We do set UIDWait OFF in these TNCs. Remember too, "the far side of the hill" is a different direction (and possibly additional coverage area) for each digi that transmits a user's packet. And individual digipeaters sometimes quit working, so _a little bit_ of redundancy in the VHF network is not always a bad thing. > Anyway, the result of this revelation is to cause me to go back and REVISE > the above recomemendation to INCLUDE the "use only WIDE2-2" (or WIDE3-3) in > this area, (meaning WIDE1-1 is not supported). > > RECOMMENDATION TO NEW MEXICO? I suggest you're over-working this a bit. These days it seems VHF network capacity is more significantly decremented by users' too-frequent transmission interval settings than by their digipath settings. In my view, your suggesting that the "North American default routine mobile digipath" of WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 will no longer be recommended in Arizona is a very large practical disadvantage to your newest plan. And WIDE1-1,WIDE2-1 even works in Southern California today too. Of course, fixed non-moving VHF stations can use a less broad digipath routinely, like only WIDE2-1 or only WIDE1-1 or only a single high digipeater's callsign (or only WIDE2-2 or only "SSn-N"). 73, Cap KE6AFE From richard.corfield at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 18:20:56 2011 From: richard.corfield at gmail.com (Richard Corfield) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 23:20:56 +0100 Subject: [aprssig] Clock/timing accuracy when generating an APRS signal Message-ID: Thanks for the info. The receiving PC is a Netbook and was using internal sound card. As I type this some process is hogging the system or it's running out of RAM so I watch the text follow a few characters behind me typing it. (Windows Update is a bad one, as is the virus scanner. I guess the real issue here is Google Mail doing something big in javascript). I am now using a crystal in my transmitter (a PIC microcontroller). I had been trying to use its internal RC clock which is more like 2000ppm, though I wonder if that is stable enough over short time periods that I could train it using the accurate 1Hz signal from my GPS module. The waveform generation is based on interrupts but they are high priority and very predictable. The bigger problem is that I have to round the amount of clock ticks per sample to a whole number so lose just under 1% at 2200Hz, and measure the length of a bit in terms of samples which is not a whole number. If needed I could use a second timer to improve that. If I can't assume that the receiver can adjust to small drift in timing by looking at when the tone switches then I'll need to keep the length of my bits quite accurate. Because the error will be different for each tone it will look like jitter rather than a constant error factor. Thanks - Richard -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rlove31 at gmail.com Wed Aug 31 21:50:41 2011 From: rlove31 at gmail.com (Randy Love) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 21:50:41 -0400 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! In-Reply-To: <20110831200841.GB79625@bogodyn.org> References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> <20110831194827.GA79580@bogodyn.org> <20110831200841.GB79625@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: hmmm... I'm guessing this is different from the KPC3+ KISS mode delayed packet issue then? Randy WF5X -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From russo at bogodyn.org Wed Aug 31 21:58:49 2011 From: russo at bogodyn.org (Tom Russo) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2011 19:58:49 -0600 Subject: [aprssig] Fixing older KPC-3 Duping Digis! In-Reply-To: References: <02df01cc674d$8a290ab0$9e7b2010$@edu> <201183017525.438498@MGLLC> <20110831001807.GA60056@bogodyn.org> <03ef01cc6800$dd740a40$985c1ec0$@edu> <20110831171641.GA78251@bogodyn.org> <03f701cc6807$1c7cc320$55764960$@edu> <00b001cc6816$593e5c10$0bbb1430$@com> <20110831194827.GA79580@bogodyn.org> <20110831200841.GB79625@bogodyn.org> Message-ID: <20110901015849.GA82003@bogodyn.org> On Wed, Aug 31, 2011 at 09:50:41PM -0400, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > hmmm... I'm guessing this is different from the KPC3+ KISS mode delayed > packet issue then? Completely different. -- Tom Russo KM5VY SAR502 DM64ux http://www.swcp.com/~russo/ Tijeras, NM QRPL#1592 K2#398 SOC#236 http://kevan.org/brain.cgi?DDTNM "One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothin' can beat teamwork." - Edward Abbey