[aprssig] So long.... APRS-IS officially has lost 1/2 it's servers.

Scott Miller scott at opentrac.org
Sun Mar 2 01:36:28 EST 2008


Ok, I'll admit I tuned out a lot of the Tier2 / Core / CWOP pissing 
match, so maybe someone can help condense for me why this is such a big 
deal.  Yes, I understand that the 5-minute timer thing for CWOP is a bad 
design, but it sounds like there's been more trash talk than real 
attempts to resolve the problem through open communication.

As for the horrendous system requirements for the core - WHY?  I measure 
  an average throughput of about 30 kbps for the whole stream.  Yes, 256 
connections would fill up most of a 10 mbps pipe, but why the enormous 
processing power requirements?  Sure, you've got to do some parsing and 
calculation for filters, plus dupe checking, but my trackers do a 
respectable job of that using 8-bit processors at 7.3 MHz with no 
floating point.  Processing a full IS stream ought to take about 10 to 
100 times as much CPU power, but a modern desktop is at least 10,000 
times faster.  Certainly for a logging database there's some serious I/O 
overhead, but I've logged the full IS stream to Oracle Spatial on a 
modest single-disc machine.

And why the protestations about Tier2?  It seems like the most logical 
architecture to me.  Offload the filter processing and end-user 
bandwidth to a  bunch of distributed machines, and let the core handle 
server-to-server connections.  Consolidating everything into a small 
group of servers smacks of empire building, and we've just seen that it 
can't be relied on.

I don't mean this as a personal statement about anyone.  I know a number 
of people have contributed considerable time and resources to the 
endeavor and I don't mean to belittle that.  But maybe it's time to take 
another look at both the architecture and the software, and to talk 
about a more democratic organization for the operation of the network 
and coordination of its activities.  Maybe DCC would be a good venue for 
this - thankfully it seems to be much less prone to flame wars and name 
calling than the APRS SIG.

Just my 2 cents...

Scott
N1VG

Dave Anderson KG4YZY wrote:
> Hi everyone,
> 
>  
> 
> Some of you may have noticed that last night the core of the APRS-IS 
> network lost ½ of its servers.    I can only apologize to those of who 
> this impacted.  
> 
>  
> 
> My goal was not to create service interruption.    A month ago I advised 
> everyone publically and privately that I was exiting the APRS-IS network 
> as a core system operator on the last day of February.    Unfortunately 
> it appears no one else is willing to put up with the nonsense, as no 
> other servers have come online to fill the void my servers Ieave.  I 
> can’t say I blame anyone either, it’s a thankless job that takes a lot 
> of abuse.    Let me highlight a few of the reasons I left for those of 
> you who may not have read my first message.  I’ll make this one much 
> shorter and to the point.
> 
>  
> 
> Last year, the tier2 group of sysops sent a letter to the citizen 
> weather observer program managers that they were withdrawing support 
> from the program.  That part is of no question, many of us have copies 
> of this letter.   The core sysop’s jumped up and decided to help this 
> program out.  The fact that the tier2 guys apparently retracted their 
> withdrawal, unfortunately, was never passed on to us from the CWOP 
> management.
> 
>  
> 
> So when we realized that three core servers could not do the job, I went 
> out and bought a brand new Dell dual CPU eight core server to take over 
> the role of fourth.  I then sent what was the old fourth box to my co-lo 
> in Dallas to become third.  That was supposed to be a temporary band aid 
> until another system operator could be found to take it over.  I didn’t 
> –want- to be responsible for ½ of the APRS-IS core traffic.  No one was 
> ever found with the means or capacity to run a core the size of third, 
> so I was stuck footing the bill for running ½ the core of the APRS-IS 
> network.  My goal in participating in APRS-IS was the betterment of the 
> hobby.  Any of you who know me should know I’m not afraid to spend some 
> money to do that.  So life went on.
> 
>  
> 
> At the end of this past year we started having stability problems with 
> the server software we run.  Memory problems, lock ups, etc.  After 
> months of diagnosis and countless software builds in an attempt to find 
> the cause, it was finally determined it was the NON ham CWOP weather 
> stations causing the problem.  Over 2500 of them, using their computers 
> clock, were sending in weather reports in a swarm on the 5’s of the 
> clock.   Anyone who works on software can tell you that this was a poor 
> design.   The CWOP management refused to press hard on the developer of 
> this flawed and damaging piece of software to fix the problem.  They 
> were more afraid the developer would quit supporting the CWOP program.  
> They clearly didn’t care how much damage it was doing to the APRS-IS 
> network.  For that matter, the one CWOP manager made it clear that if 
> non hams had to reduce polling rates that hams had to as well.  Excuse 
> me?  Non hams are a guest on our network, not the other way around.
> 
>  
> 
> Well any of you can read the forums archives from January to see what 
> happened there.  After it was all said and done, the decision to move 
> CWOP of the APRS-IS network was made, and several servers were setup 
> just for this purpose. 
> 
>  
> 
> I posted my disgust with things and the fact I was tired of being the 
> punching bag for every time something went wrong, so I announced here 
> and in many other forums that I was exiting the APRS-IS network as a 
> core system operator.   My month long advanced notice expired last 
> night, so third and fourth are no longer online.
> 
>  
> 
> It needs to be understood that CWOP non-hams are still causing problems 
> with the APRS-IS network.  I have observed on the 5’s as much as 4-7% 
> packet loss still.  These guys are willingly causing damage to our 
> network and clearly do not care one way or the other what damage this 
> affects.       A new set of non-ham servers has been setup, but until 
> the draconian measure of filtering non authenticated logins from passing 
> data (what CWOP users are), this damage will continue to be an issue as 
> the non hams will never be forced to make the move off of our network.   
> 
>  
> 
> /Had this step been taken, I probably would have left fourth online, but 
> since it has not been taken, I have no option but to walk away 100%./
> 
>  
> 
> I would advise all of you to continue to put pressure to bear to get 
> CWOP off of the APRS-IS network.   
> 
>  
> 
> CWOP stations represent only 1/8 of the stations heard on APRS-IS, but 
> take ¼ of the bandwidth!     
> 
>  
> 
> The CWOP management clearly does not care what damage is done to the 
> APRS-IS network, and has made it clear they view hams as more of the 
> problem here. 
> 
>  
> 
> At any rate, as noted, my apologies for any difficulties that my exiting 
> the core servers has caused, but one can only be backstabbed and kicked 
> so many times before one backs away.
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 73,
> 
>  
> 
> Dave
> 
> KG4YZY
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
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