[aprssig] Multiple SSID's from one station, with the New N Paradigm.

Tue Dec 16 07:18:11 EST 2008

Cheers Bob...

Current suspects involve a rouge D700 somewhere.  It's also prevelant in
France, and Ireland too it seems.  The decrementing of the originating
SSID that is, both those areas use WIDEn-N, though it has been seen with
TRACEn-N too, though not as bad.

I know DigiNed, and am planning on using it sometime (or AGW Digi) so
will take care with the settings, and get people to test it.

Cheers.

Dave G0WBX

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bob Donnell [mailto:kd7nm at pugetsound.net] 
> Sent: 15 December 2008 20:33
> To: 'TAPR APRS Mailing List'
> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Multiple SSID's from one station,with 
> the New N Paradigm.
> 
> If I had to venture a guess, someone on the network has tried 
> to implement WIDEn-n with digined, or some other 
> user-configurable softare handling the digipeating function.  
> That station has a bad configuration, one that instead of 
> decrementing the digipeating SSID, is instead, decrementing 
> the sending station SSID.  There are not too many choices of 
> widely disseminated software available, in that regard.  With 
> all of the different things that have been tried on APRS in 
> the Pacific Northwest, the problem you've documented is not a 
> problem that I've ever seen reported having been done 
> locally.  Don't feel like a Lone Ranger.  A number of 
> modifications to the APRS digipeating paradigms have had 
> their roots here.  Just like roots, some of those roots seem 
> to run into solid obstacles, which slows their growth.
> 
> 73, Bob, KD7NM
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aprssig-bounces at tapr.org 
> [mailto:aprssig-bounces at tapr.org] On Behalf Of Dave Baxter
> Sent: Monday, December 15, 2008 12:52 AM
> To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [aprssig] Multiple SSID's from one station,with 
> the New N Paradigm.
> 
> Hi Keith....
> 
> Nope, the sending station only used one ssid -15.  There is something
> elsewhere in the network (such as it is) that is causing this.   It is
> one of the several reasons why England has not moved to Newn-N in the
> past.   There is strong anecdotal evidence that misconfigured 
> D700's are
> a probable cause.
> 
> Believe me, trying to explain to several people who still 
> think that the new WIDEn-N system is the same as WIDE (and 
> not tracable) is a near vertical struggle.  They keep talking 
> about this and not making clear which paradigm they are 
> talking about, just to add to the confusion.
> 
> Regards.
> 
> Dave G0WBX
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Keith VE7GDH [mailto:ve7gdh at rac.ca]
> > Sent: 13 December 2008 22:09
> > To: TAPR APRS Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [aprssig] Multiple SSID's from one 
> station,with the New N 
> > Paradigm.
> > 
> > Dave G0WBX wrote...
> > 
> > > Following the recent IARU R1 meeting in Cavtat, and the resulting 
> > > recommendation that Region 1 adopts the Newn-N paradigm...
> > 
> > I was pleased to hear that. There's a lot to be said for having 
> > universal settings that will work everywhere without having to 
> > reprogram as you travel.
> > 
> > > several people in the UK APRS network have been
> > investigating how best
> > > to adopt it.  Notwithstanding that many think it's not 
> necessary to 
> > > change from RELAY,TRACEn-N to WIDE1-1,WIDEn-N etc, for many
> > reasons,
> > > not least this following behaviour seen on air..
> > 
> > > 2008-12-08 14:36:12 UTC:
> > > G7III-15>APRS,MB7UW*,WIDE5-3,qAR,G0CGL-12
> > > :!5124.12N/00046.23W& Test Dup SSID: W5-5
> > 
> > > 2008-12-08 14:36:21 UTC:
> > > G7III-14>APRS,MB7UW*,WIDE5-3,qAR,G0WKM-2
> > >:!5124.12N/00046.23W& Test Dup SSID: W5-5
> > 
> > > 2008-12-08 14:36:25 UTC:
> > > G7III-13>APRS,MB7UW*,WIDE5-2,qAR,G0WKM-2
> > > :!5124.12N/00046.23W& Test Dup SSID: W5-5
> > 
> > > 2008-12-08 14:36:36 UTC:
> > > G7III-12>APRS,MB7UW*,WIDE5-1,qAR,G0WKM-2
> > > :!5124.12N/00046.23W& Test Dup SSID: W5-5
> > 
> > > Note the decrementing SSID of G7III, this is caused by a digi 
> > > somewhere in the network, but is proving illusive to track
> > down. G7III
> > > of course only used one SSID, -15.
> > >
> > > It is (again I'm told) one of the main reasons why the UK (well, 
> > > England at least) has stuck with RELAY,TRACEn-N as it 
> doesnt happen 
> > > with that path method.
> > 
> > In North America, we have made WIDEn-N traceable and the 
> old TRACEn-N 
> > isn't used... except for a few hold-outs. We could instead adopt 
> > TRACEn-N and make that traceable againa, but that would involve a 
> > change for many thousands of users. Not that it makes a lot of 
> > difference, but WIDEn-N saves one byte compared to TRACEn-N, but of 
> > course the length of the digipeated packet increases each 
> time it is 
> > digipeated.
> > However, the advantage is in being able to see the actual 
> path and no 
> > dupes. Yes, you have tht now with the old TRACEn-N, but I 
> think it is 
> > a very worthwhile goal to have universal settings.
> > 
> > RELAY isn't traceable and can lead to dupes and 
> ping-ponging between 
> > digis.
> > 
> > In the example above, it appears the SSID was changed by the 
> > originating station... G7III-15, G7III-14, G7III-13, G7III-12. The 
> > beacon comment indicates "Test Dup SSID". Are you saying that G7III 
> > only transmitted with one SSID? If so, something screwy is going on.
> > 
> > > Someone has said this...   "...there is a D700 somewhere 
> > with UIFLOOD
> > > set with NOID enabled." Is this the case, or is there
> > something else
> > > happening?
> > 
> > I'm not sure what is causing it.
> > 
> > > Was this odd behaviour seen in the USA when the New WIDEn-N
> > system was
> > > first rolled out?   If so, how did you track it down and fix it?
> > 
> > No. There was a transition period where most digis and 
> mobile stations 
> > changed over, but I've never heard of what was shown in the 
> examples 
> > you provided going on if the originating station wasn't 
> changing the 
> > SSID.
> > Perhaps someone within earshot of G7III and some of the 
> nearby digis 
> > might be able to observe what is going on. The WIDEn-N should 
> > decrement.
> > The callsign-SSID of the originating station should most 
> definitely be 
> > changing.
> > 
> > 73 es cul - Keith VE7GDH
> > --
> > "I may be lost, but I know exactly where I am!"
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
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