[aprssig] CRUTCH support of RELAY and WIDE

[Steve Noskowicz]

As someone who never did packet (but knows a little
bit about standard packets paths), bought a D700, put
my call in with a non-standard SSID and was on the
air:

 Long version:
1st  I believe Steve is saying that *HE* will see the
bad packets and contact the Bad-Path-Ham.  
    That's sort-of ok in my opinion.  When I first got
on, if I had been contacted by a Digi-op, I'd have
fixed things as he said.  
   This would have resulted in a pretty long
conversation on how paths and digis work.  But, then,
I'm a long time EE with a virtually unlimited
curiousity about too many things to list here and
somewhat of an unrequited desire to learn APRS.
   If I hadn't seen myself on findu, I'd have hit the
Net with gusto, but remember the EE thing.  But, I did
that anyway.

Case 1 -  Bad-Path-Ham gets on, doesn't see themselves
on findu and walks away.  I personally think that
might be OK because they wouldn't go to the trouble of
learning more...  and perhaps this kind of technology
isn't their thing.  They may not want/like to dig that
deep into APRS.  That's ok. Not everyone does.  May be
an expensive lesson.  
Your opinion may differ here.

Case 2 -  Bad-Path-Ham is all alone in the APRS world
and *is* motivated to dig deeper on the Net or
wherever, they (arguably) could have learned much
more... We do learn better when we are *internally*
motivated... as in my old saying:
   "They say we learn by our mistakes...  Boy! am I
learning now!"

Case 3 - Bad-Path-Ham thinks all is well on findu, BUT
gets a call from Mr. Guru *NON-absentee" Digi-Op  with
info.  That's good and the Digi-Op will probably (at
least try) to impart some knoledge about paths.  A
good thing.

Case 4a - Bad-Path-Ham &
Bad-Path-Modifying-Absentee-Digi-Op = frustration.

So, as a still pretty green APRS user (remember, not
an idiot, just ignorant), I am a little more in favor
of Bob's position.  Doing the Path correction, in my
opinion, is not actually correcting the Ham as Steve
puts it.  His call/email is the correction.  The
initial failure can be a strong motivator, IFF they
want to learn.
HOWEVER...
   If you are a Smart, involved Digi Op it's ok, but
keep it quiet.  Claim that path modification is bad,
bad, bad.

73, Steve, K9DCI

--- Bob Bruninga  <bruninga at usna.edu> wrote:

> Regarding DIGI support for obsolete RELAY and WIDE:
> 
> > I'd rather have a sense of accomplishment 
> > and belonging that the user will experience 
> > when he sees his first time packet digi'd 
> > then the frustration of not seeing it digi'd.
> 
> Huh?  If he is successful, then he will leave it
> that way.  And yes, it will work at that one
> crutch-digi, but you are setting him up for failure
> on his next trip!
> 
> > Sure, the user has used an incorrect path 
> > but let's correct his mistake, get him on the 
> > air and then help him to understand what he 
> > should be doing.
> 
> Really?  Who is gong to correct it?  How?  Its
> working!
> 
> If it is working, and if the digi is doing callsign
> substitution or PATH MODIFICATION ON HIS BEHALF then
> how will he or ANYONE EVER KNOW!  No one will ever
> see his RELAY and WIDE path.  You are setting him up
> for failure.
> 
> And you are also setting him up for using the wrong
> path and looking foolish for not using the correct
> path.  No. no. no.
> The RELAY and WIDE generic paths are bad, are
> obsolete, and continuting to support them is doing a
> disservice to the user who wants to do things right.
> 
> Bob, WB4APR
> 
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