FW: [aprssig] APRS Field Day on 145.01

Sun Jun 19 12:17:37 EDT 2005

By the way, I did put this on the APRSSIG since
I am sure that other people may also share your
concerns.  And it is a topic that we do need to
address openly prior to FD...

>Sure, never mind the regular folks that operate 
>Packet Radio on Field Day on 145.010,

Then it seems the suggestion to invite FD operators 
over to 145.01 to make contacts that day is in
keeping with the spirit of existing use of that channel...

> never mind those that DO want to use BBS's and 
>are  not interested in 'your' version of Ham Radio
>(APRS).

That should not be a problem either.  APRS operators
can also make connections and UI keyboard chats
as well.   Yes, it will be a busy day, but that is what FD 
is generally all about,   Getting people on the air and 
making contacts.   Since humans  are present and
listening to the channel and operating, then in general
I expect them to be courteous in their use of the 
frequency.

>Here in Puget Sound... we have a strong usage of 
>Packet Radio keyboard-to-keyboard, chat sessions 
>and folks that just want to check into the local BBS, 
>and yes, those that will be setting up stations to make 
>KEYBOARD contacts with other stations.
>Nice to know that you aren't concerned about those 
>folks.

Actually, I was thinking it would help everyone, old timers
and new entrants to packet radio alike to  suggest a common
calling channel for contacts on FD that would be in keeping
with the ARRL rules established for packet operation on that
day.  145.01 seemed like the natural choice.

>By the way, here in the Puget Sound area we don't 
>forward on the user channel, that's what backbones 
>are for!   Obviously your text below also has lots of 
>other  assumptions too.

I was only responding to your email where you said:
"Guess we can start doing BBS forwarding on 
  144.390  (think I'm kidding?!)"

I thought you were implying that your BBS forwarding
would be impacted by APRS operators  if they came
over and made contacts on 145.01.  

I think it can be a great opportunity for everyone.
APRS  operators need to learn and understand
how to operate conventional packet, and BBS's
and all other kinds of packet applications.  Also 
they need to learn how to establish quickly networks
in the field on demand.  Also we need to learn 
what else is out there in their community.

I think it can be a great opportunity..

de Wb4APR, Bob

--- Robert Bruninga <bruninga at usna.edu> wrote:

> >What MORON wants to do full APRS on 145.010 ?
> 
> Its not "full APRS", its human operators using a digital
> channel to make a quick contact.  I proposed it.  Since 
> the ARRL rules prohibit the use of existing infrastructure 
> during Field Day for packet operation.  Choosing 145.01 
> seemed to make sense as a place to make packet 
> contacts.
> 
> 1) Its the national digital channel
> 2) Its only a 1 day event
> 3) The total load might be  2 or 3 stations in range
>     of any given BBS
> 4) The duty cycle of APRS in this context is less than
>     say 5% of channel capacity and would not interfere
>     in any noticible way with BBS forwarding
> 5) During a forwarding connection, no APRS operator
>     is going to try to send any packets (self defeating)
> 6) The BBS activity is very low and probably
>     minimal on Field Day when everyone should be out
>     in the field doing HAM radio.
> 
> 7) Getting the FD messages via established BBS is
>    not valid for points on FD either, because packets 
>    must use a non established infrastrucutre to count.
>    So there should not be an unusual rise in BBS 
>    forwarding that day either...
> 
> I think that one packet per 10 minutes (0.02 of
> channel capacity) per FD station packet would
> be quite unnoticed on any typical BBS channel.
> 
> Remember, we are not talking about moving what
> you hear on 144.39 over to 145.01.    That contains
> 95% stuff that you would never hear on FD on
> a different channel.  The only thing that would 
> move to 145.01 would be human operators and that
> is typicaly less than 5% of what you hear.  And
> even then my guess is few will go to the trouble.
> 
> So I dont think it will be a problem for BBS operators
> on that day...
> 
> de Wb4APR, Bob
> 
> 
> Herb Gerhardt <hgerhardt at wavecable.com> wrote:
> 145.01 is not my idea but Father Bob's. I still prefer doing it all on
> 144.390 but I did not want to waist my time fighting it like I did last
> year. So, Jerry, if you want us to go for that 100 points, I will let you
> figure out the rules. I hate stupid rules and I am sure these are stupid.
> 
> I think I told Scott about it the first time Bob opened his mouth about it a
> couple of months ago.
> 
> Herb
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: aprssig-bounces at lists.tapr.org 
> [mailto:aprssig-bounces at lists.tapr.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bruninga
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 6:54 AM
> To: aprssig at lists.tapr.org 
> Subject: [aprssig] APRS Field Day on 145.01
> 
> 
> Field Day is the epiphany of APRS.
> Under field conditions, creating an AD-HOC digital
> network for sharring commuications with all around
> you is-was-and always has been the main objective
> of APRS.
> 
> I have only fielded one or two questions about how
> to set up APRS for this FD on 145.01, and this either
> means that everyone is fully ready to go and under
> stands the challenges or very few are actually going
> to make the effort. See:
> 
> http://www.ew.usna.edu/~bruninga/aprs/fd2005.html 
> 
> I suggest that the easy way to see what is going to
> happen is for everyone NOW till FD to place objects
> on their maps representing their intended FD ops
> AND frequency. Remember it must be on a different
> freq and use different assets from 144.39 to count
> under the ARRL FD rules. I suggest the national
> digital channel of 145.01 for that day.
> 
> 1) Everyone use the TENT/CAMP/PORTABLE symbol
> to make them easy to search by symbol
> 
> 2) Indicate 145.01 text to show you will actually do APRS
> (I see several FD obj, but no idea if they will be APRS)
> 
> 3) Everyone with a D700 or Home station with KPC-3
> or Software that can digipeat UITRACE, set to support
> "TEMPn-N" by setting their UITRACE to TEMP,28
> (D700 uses just UITRACE TEMP.)
> 
> 4) On FD, everyone QSY to 145.01 and set up TEMPn-N
> stations and digis, the more the better!
> 
> NOTICE that you can put UITRACE TEMP into ALL
> your systems NOW including your mobile AND leave it
> their PERMANENTLY even while you are on 144.39
> because it will not hurt anything. THink of it as a sleeping
> capability that can be used at any time for testing but
> can be instantly QSY'ed on FD.
> 
> This dependence on TEMPn-N as the universal APRS
> ad-hoc path does have a disadvantage in that only
> TNC's that can support it can be used as digis. Thus,
> you have to plan ahead on what to make your portable
> stations from. But UIVIEW operating with a KISS
> TNC can support UITRACE TEMP too, so would someone
> please publish exactly the minimum steps needed to
> make UIview act as a TEMPn-N digi?
> 
> Now till then, see my home station Posit text saying:
> "Will be FD on 145.01 TEMPn-N digi"
> 
> Which shows up nicely on the Kenwood as:
> 
> WB4APR:
> Will be FD
> on 145.01
> TEMPn-N
> 
> See ya on FD! Where everyone is a digi!
> 
> de Wb4APR, Bob
> 
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